re: Nick Saban (2008-2014) vs Kirby Smart (2017-2023)

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Govt Tide

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appreciate the work, but

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opponent's ranking at the time they played

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is a shite metric. You should know from firsthand experience wathcing bama beat up on Miami and FSU teams in season openers that were ranked nicely but barely finished above .500

When Saban took off he didn't have to overcome anyone like Smart. Smart had to overcome Saban.

It's interesting how different those two coaches act during games. Saban loses his shite at times. Smart doesn't.

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When Saban took off he didn't have to overcome anyone like Smart. Smart had to overcome Saban.

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This is one of the absolute biggest gargantuan talking points that nobody ever seems to talk about. When Saban first started his rise to prominence, the only other truly elite coach in the league was Meyer, who was gone 4 years into saban's tenure. Fulmer was there 2 years of Saban's tenure then gone. Richt was decent but nowhere at that level. Miles? Tuberville? Come on.

Saban is obviously better than all fo them, but he really didn't face a whole hell of a lot of resistence in the way of a true equal/nemesis. Kirby from his frist day on the job as a head coach until now has had Saban in his way. It really makes what he's done thus far even MORE remarkable. If Saban didn't exist Kirby already has 1 more natty if not sevearl more.

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Kirby is just proving it just takes buying alot of 5*s and playing a weak schedule to be deemed the GOAT. He will be til the next HC comes around with that same situation and they will be the GOAT.

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What is the “same situation”?

Only 10 teams have repeated in the 60 years. And he’s 4 games a way from possibly 3 peating. How often is this a “same situation” thing?

Very true, in his 6th-8th seasons Saban went a respectable:

10-2 at MSU
8-4 at LSU (first year)
10-3 (improves)

Absolutely solid, but also totally eclipsed by his later numbers at bama and Kirby's current numbers in years 6-8.

Exactly. One dude is on pace over one whole game. The other is on pace after 8 seasons & 100+ games...

This argument comes up all the time in baseball

Definitely the same guy

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This is one of the absolute biggest gargantuan talking points that nobody ever seems to talk about. When Saban first started his rise to prominence, the only other truly elite coach in the league was Meyer, who was gone 4 years into saban's tenure.

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Saban inherited a program that over the previous 4 years had landed 2 five stars (1 transferred before Saban got there). He immediately had to contend with a coach that had won the national title and, and another coach that would win the title in his first year. Saban is a tier above Meyer and Miles imo. Meyer though is a very good coach, he has personal vices that get in his way though, and made it difficult for him to keep up with Saban because of how Saban was building a program to sustain success. Miles was a decent coach for the era that found himself in a good situation, sort of like Orgeron.

Saban also had to contend with a legitimate in-state program that was undefeated in 04, and manages to field a formidable squad at least 50% of the time, which is significantly more than anyone can say about Georgia Tech this century.

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Kirby from his frist day on the job as a head coach until now has had Saban in his way. It really makes what he's done thus far even MORE remarkable. If Saban didn't exist Kirby already has 1 more natty if not sevearl more.

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So to recap what Saban “had to contend with”:
1. Two years removed from the college game, and had to put together a staff and ramp up recruiting from zero with just 1 month till NSD in 07.
2. Inherited a program that not only was barely averaging .500 the previous 4 seasons, had lost to its instate rival 6 years in a row, and had just 1 five star and roughly 20 4 stars (maybe 25th in a talent team composite?), and was in the SEC West which had won 2 of the past 4 conference championships
3. His program was immediately hit with a sanction by the NCAA for violations that happened under the previous coach’s tenure
4. Would face multiple national championship coaches in-conference over his first 4 seasons

Vs Kirby’s path…
1. Learned under Saban about the process and building a college program for 8 straight seasons before taking the UGA position. It’s been discussed multiple times over the past several years how he essentially photo-copied whole aspects of Alabama football’s approach to help mimic Alabama’s success
2. Hired by a program that was averaging 10 wins a year the previous 5 years, and found himself in the weaker division of SEC which had not won the conference in 7 years
3. Inherited a roster that was 6th in team composite with 10 five stars and 31 four stars
4. Program was in a state regularly in the top 4 of high school football talent with a weak in-state rival, and no in-state rival within conference
5. Hired coaches and recruited rostered players to UGA from Bama throughout his first few years to help implement Bama’s approach and culture as quickly as possible
6. Immediately began re-recruiting kids he had recruited to Bama. Everyone has heard the big board story, and how he leveraged it to negatively recruit Bama and lure players to UGA
8. Only had 1 championship level coach to contend with over his first four seasons, which was not in his division, and happened to be his former boss whom he essentially modeled the majority of his program after

What’s that saying about “standing on the shoulders of giants” (insert sabanmidget.gif)

If you think these variables don’t significantly contribute to the similarity in the records/accomplishments, and that what Kirby has done, given all his advantages, is more impressive…well just have to agree to disagree

Melt.

We've played 3 straight top-25 teams, and 2 top-12 teams in Mizzou and Ole Piss, how exactly is that a joke?

I'll wait.

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eorgias schedule is a fricking joke every season. Ooooh their big end of the year rivalry is Georgia Tech lol - such a tough game for them

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UGA has the best OOC and often the best overall schedule in the SEC on average since college football went to 12 games.

They do this by averaging 2 P5/BCS teams OOC rather than what most SEC teams do, scheduling one.

For example... do you know what the highest number of top 25 wins any team in college football has right now?

It's 3. And UGA is one of the teams with 3 top-25 wins. You don't lead the nation in top 25 wins unless you play a schedule with a fair number of top 25 opponents on it. UGA in fact has done that.

Would it have been better if the SEC hadn't cancelled the UGA/OU game? Sure. But even without that game, it still allowed them to get the highest number of top 25 victories.