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re: Nick Saban (2008-2014) vs Kirby Smart (2017-2023)
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:33 am to GoldenDawg
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:33 am to GoldenDawg
quote:
that Alabama is not currently 0-2 against Georgia
This is a weird way of saying "lost the last 2".
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As to no one could dominate Alabama like Clemson did, please take another look at last year's National Championship game. Georgia won by a greater margin than any team has ever won in the history of every bowl game ever played.
I mean, congrats on playing the absolute worst team to make the playoffs ever I guess?
It was painfully obvious that Ohio State was light years better than TCU, but had to play you guys due to their loss to Michigan. Georgia needed to come from 14 points behind to beat OSU.
It was a great game (UGA vs OSU) and the semifinal games made up for an utterly abysmal final, but let's not pretend Ohio State wouldn't beat TCU by a similar margin. TCU was a feel good story that, if not for the playoffs would likely have gone to a great bowl, possibly won it, and not have to live with being the most brutally destroyed opponent in the playoffs ever.
4
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:48 am to Globetrotter747
quote:
There’s no better college job for Kirby to take, and there’s no better coach for UGA to get. Therefore, the marriage lasts. That’s all there is to it.
So, it's your belief that Georgia is the best job in the country?
I'm glad you feel this way!
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:52 am to skrayper
quote:
but let's not pretend Ohio State wouldn't beat TCU by a similar margin
This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen. TCU beat Michigan, the same Michigan team that throttled OSU.
The fact that none of y'all can admit on here is UGA last year was a team that no one would beat the way we played in the NC. No one else could have done that, nor have the ever done it.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:55 am to DawgsLife
quote:
So, it's your belief that Georgia is the best job in the country?
Truthfully? It is and has been for a very long time. Georgia by all rights should have been dominating the SEC for the last 50 years. They are located in the heart of a talent-rich state and the only other P5 school they have in their state to compete with is Georgia Tech - a school that is focused more on academics than athletics. Alabama has Auburn; Florida has Florida State, Central Florida, and Miami; Texas and Texas A&M have to compete with themselves as well as a number of other P5 schools in that state for potential recruits.
One can definitely make the argument that they are the most underachieving program in the history of college football.
This post was edited on 11/24/23 at 9:56 am
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:55 am to skrayper
quote:
This is a weird way of saying "lost the last 2".
Which is a weird way of saying "0-2".
quote:
I mean, congrats on playing the absolute worst team to make the playoffs ever I guess?
You say this like TCU didn't have to beat a Michigan team in the playoffs to make it to the Championship game. Same Michigan team that beat Ohio State the game prior.
And we didn't just beat them. We beat them worse than any team has ever been beaten in the entire history of the college bowl system. We beat them worse than Alabama has beaten any team in any bowl game Alabama has ever played in.
This was after a playoff in which TCU earned the right to be there. Something Alabama failed to do because Alabama wasn't good enough last year.
You know this, it just hurts you to acknowledge it.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:21 am to meansonny
quote:
Dooley stayed in Athens. Goff stayed in Athens. Donnan stayed in Athens. Richt stayed in Athens. Where do you think Smart will live when he retires?
Who gives a shite where coaches retire?
While they are coaching, coaches follow money and opportunity. They don’t give a shite about their alma mater. They don’t give a shite about the restaurant scene in Athens or Austin or Baton Rouge or Oxford.
Fans and coaches are a lot alike. Is it a sweet story that Kirby is an alumnus? Yes. But if Kirby were an A- coach in 2016 and you could have had an A+ coach from Oregon, you would take the A+ coach. If you could have a 4 star QB from Rome who grew up with Georgia posters all over his wall and attended every home game and every camp or a can’t miss 5 star from LA who’s never heard of Herschel Walker, you would take the 5 star.
Winning. That’s all fans and coaches give a shite about. Who is doing the winning doesn’t really matter. The marriage between coach and program is a balance of results, expectations, and options.
If a coach meets or exceeds expectations and there are better options, he’s leaving. If a coach fails to live up to expectations, he’s getting fired. If the coach and program are both top notch (like Smart/Georgia, Saban/Bama) there will likely be a long tenure.
Hell, rivalries don’t get more intense than Alabama and Auburn and plenty of players and coaches have jumped on both sides of that fence for another dollar.
Money, winning, opportunity. That’s all the players and coaches you cheer for really care about.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:27 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Crimson_Chaos
quote:
Not sure why your post got so many down votes. It is spot on and you've pretty much proven to be a fair poster.
Glad we know whose alter this is.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:28 am to Govt Tide
Thing is Kirby is much younger than Saban was at this point
He could do this a long time
He could do this a long time
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:29 am to skrayper
quote:
Georgia needed to come from 14 points behind to beat OSU.
We did it twice BTW.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:40 am to Globetrotter747
quote:
While they are coaching, coaches follow money and opportunity. They don’t give a shite about their alma mater. They don’t give a shite about the restaurant scene in Athens or Austin or Baton Rouge or Oxford.
No head coach since at least the 1940's has left UGA to take another coaching job, either NFL or college. They've either retired or been fired.
People don't follow money and opportunity away from Athens. Yes, UGA does fire coaches who don't reach the level UGA wants. But it does say something that they all come back to retire in Athens because they loved living there so much as coaches. They could all go anywhere. By the beach, in the mountains, or in whatever city anywhere in the world that piques their interest. Instead, they go for Athens.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:49 am to skrayper
quote:
I mean, congrats on playing the absolute worst team to make the playoffs ever I guess?
It was painfully obvious that Ohio State was light years better than TCU, but had to play you guys due to their loss to Michigan. Georgia needed to come from 14 points behind to beat OSU.
You circle around points like a woman.
Ohio State was light years better than TCU?
We beat both! Lol
And TCU beat Michigan.
You make no sense. You can't be the worst playoff team if you win your playoff game.
Do you know what is worse than the worse playoff team in history?
A team that lost to the only 2 good squads that they faced. Bama.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:02 am to DawginSC
quote:
No head coach since at least the 1940's has left UGA to take another coaching job, either NFL or college. They've either retired or been fired.
Yup... Wally Butts started as HC in 1939(I've heard that year mentioned often
)... UGA has only had 7 head coaches in the last 84 years, not sure about Butts and Griffith (will hafta look) but since '64 all gave lived in Athens...
7 Coaches in 84yrs and counting with CKS, UGA must be doing something right...
Eta:... Butts died in Athens in '73, Griffith went on to coach a few years at gt and passed away in Duluth Ga. Bout 40 miles from Athens...
This post was edited on 11/24/23 at 11:21 am
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:25 am to DrewDawg13
quote:
TCU beat Michigan, the same Michigan team that throttled OSU.
Well, by that logic, Michigan was better than Georgia, who needed to come from behind to beat Ohio State by 1.
Unless we admit that the Ohio State and Michigan teams that faced earlier weren't quite the same; not to mention that Michigan had a chance to score 21 points and came away with 3 on three trips inside the 10 yard line. Kick 2 FGs on those other two trips and UGA would have faced Michigan (not to mention two pick-6's).
Look, I'm not saying TCU cheated or didn't "deserve" to beat Michigan - they did, and they got in.
But transitive property isn't the best indicator, considering that Michigan beat OSU handily, UGA beat OSU by 1, and TCU beat Michigan by 6.
Transitive logic would have UGA losing against TCU, not obliterating them by 50+.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:29 am to GoldenDawg
quote:
Which is a weird way of saying "0-2".
Most people don't use records like that unless they include the time frame/number of games played. Like "9-3 in their last 12" when the other caveats could lead to additional games.
In other words, the original criteria were:
Alabama, being coached by Saban
Georgia, being coached by Smart
quote:
This was after a playoff in which TCU earned the right to be there. Something Alabama failed to do because Alabama wasn't good enough last year.
You know this, it just hurts you to acknowledge it
That's weird... when I have made the case that Alabama should have been in the playoffs?
There's a difference between "most deserving" and "best opponent." The best opponent for Georgia was Ohio State who, without a conference championship, was the least deserving team out of the 4 to be in there.
TCU deserved their spot; but just like a conference champ in the NCAA tournament with a high seed losing by round 2 doesn't suddenly mean they didn't "deserve" it. No one is making the claim of "deserves" or "doesn't deserve."
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:44 am to skrayper
quote:
Transitive logic would have UGA losing against TCU, not obliterating them by 50+.
No one is arguing a transitive property other than "that is how a playoff works".
We are 10 years in.
If you are still uncomfortable with the transitive property of a playoff, then you are going to be miserable next season.
Do you watch any other sports? They all have playoffs.
This "transitive property" aspect of a playoff shouldn't be so shocking to your core.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 12:20 pm to skrayper
quote:
Ultimately it really depends on what lessons were most critical to the success for Saban and Kirby.
The head coach is responsible for everything. The best way to learn about head coaching is to actually do head coaching: How to recruit, who to recruit, who to hire, type of offense, delegation, off field PR/media.
Also, I imagine Saban learned the importance of a massive support staff at Miami, and he brought that NFL stuff to bama. It’s not something he had to suddenly figure out. He implemented it immediately at bama, just as Kirby did at uga.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 1:02 pm to skrayper
quote:
Unless we admit that the Ohio State and Michigan teams that faced earlier weren't quite the same
In what ways?
Posted on 11/24/23 at 1:06 pm to Funky Tide 8
All arguing aside I think it's safe to say that both Kirby Smart and Nick Saban are on runs that may not be duplicated ever again.
If both teams take care of business Saturday and Georgia goes on to beat Alabama in Atlanta they'll have identical 86-10 records since the start of the 2017 season. They'll both have 3 SEC championships and 2 national championships over that time as well. Kirby would then by 2 wins away from breaking the national championship tie and the overall record tie in the playoffs as well.
The one record of Saban's that I think is safe will not be matched at least in my lifetime is the 13 consecutive 11+ win seasons Saban if Alabama manages to take care of business and beat Auburn tomorrow. Alabama was fortunate to go undefeated in the 2020 Covid season and fortunate the Big Ten shortened their season essentially denying Ohio State the opportunity to win 11+ games in 2020 essentially ending what at the time was a streak of 8 consecutive 11+ win seasons which would have reached 11 seasons if not for their shortened 2020 season.
Nebraska's 33 conswcutive 9+ win seasons and Alabama's 13 consecutive 11+ win seasons are two streaks that may never be broken again.
If both teams take care of business Saturday and Georgia goes on to beat Alabama in Atlanta they'll have identical 86-10 records since the start of the 2017 season. They'll both have 3 SEC championships and 2 national championships over that time as well. Kirby would then by 2 wins away from breaking the national championship tie and the overall record tie in the playoffs as well.
The one record of Saban's that I think is safe will not be matched at least in my lifetime is the 13 consecutive 11+ win seasons Saban if Alabama manages to take care of business and beat Auburn tomorrow. Alabama was fortunate to go undefeated in the 2020 Covid season and fortunate the Big Ten shortened their season essentially denying Ohio State the opportunity to win 11+ games in 2020 essentially ending what at the time was a streak of 8 consecutive 11+ win seasons which would have reached 11 seasons if not for their shortened 2020 season.
Nebraska's 33 conswcutive 9+ win seasons and Alabama's 13 consecutive 11+ win seasons are two streaks that may never be broken again.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 1:09 pm to Govt Tide
quote:
The one record of Saban's that I think is safe will not be matched at least in my lifetime is the 13 consecutive 11+ win seasons Saban if Alabama manages to take care of business and beat Auburn tomorrow. Alabama was fortunate to go undefeated in the 2020 Covid season and fortunate the Big Ten shortened their season essentially denying Ohio State the opportunity to win 11+ games in 2020 essentially ending what at the time was a streak of 8 consecutive 11+ win seasons which would have reached 11 seasons if not for their shortened 2020 season.
That isn't a bad assumption.
Kirby is at 3 years presently.
Kirby is 47 years old.
It isn't crazy to think that he coaches another 10+ seasons.
It isn't crazy to think that a 12 team playoff helps make it easier for a program like Georgia to hit 11 wins.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 1:24 pm to meansonny
Very true. The 11 win threshold is tricky because there's so little room for error in any given year a team loses 2 games during the regular season and misses out on the SEC Championship game. It then comes to beating a really good opponent in a bowl game the team may or may not be fired up to be in. It only takes one season with a particularly difficult and unfavorable schedule coupled with bad injury luck to a star quarterback early in the season for example to drop 2 or 3 games prior to the playoffs thus missing the playoffs. I agree though that the expanded playoff will make getting into the playoffs much easier thus making getting to 11+ wins much easier going forward.
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