Started By
Message
0
Posted on 11/23/23 at 10:42 am to Govt Tide
This is a good and interesting post OP. Kirby has been amazing, as was Nick, in their first few years. Time will tell, but I never thought a coach would surpass the GOAT.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 10:48 am to HighTide_ATL
Smart went from coordinator to winning a SEC title and nearly winning a natty in 2 years as a HC. Nick Saban barely had a winning record in his first 2 years as a HC. Smart is not the GOAT but what he has done is damned impressive and if he coaches into his 70s (doubtful) he will probably be the GOAT.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 10:58 am to AwgustaDawg
“But Saban had already been a head coach before!1!1!1!”
I laid out the significant differences between the two time periods. I never said what Smart has done isn’t impressive, I’m saying if we’re comparing the two coaches’ first 8 years at their current programs, one had to contend with significant hurdles the other did not
Smart’s only real hurdles were not having been a head coach, and having Saban in the other division. Both of which he mitigated by just copying ‘s approach as much as possible. I gave him credit for this strategy earlier in the thread
I laid out the significant differences between the two time periods. I never said what Smart has done isn’t impressive, I’m saying if we’re comparing the two coaches’ first 8 years at their current programs, one had to contend with significant hurdles the other did not
Smart’s only real hurdles were not having been a head coach, and having Saban in the other division. Both of which he mitigated by just copying ‘s approach as much as possible. I gave him credit for this strategy earlier in the thread
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:22 am to HighTide_ATL
quote:
I laid out the significant differences between the two time periods. I never said what Smart has done isn’t impressive, I’m saying if we’re comparing the two coaches’ first 8 years at their current programs, one had to contend with significant hurdles the other did not
Saban did not have to contend with the learning curve of the HC position in his first 8 years at his current job. Smart did. That curve is steep and dangerous. Smart won the SEC in his second year as a head coach at level. I understand the need to lay all of his success at Sabans feet and most of it belongs there. But smart did not learn how to win a conference title in his second year as a HC from Saban because Saban didn’t do it. Saban is the GOAT. That’s not debatable. I don’t think Smart is the better coach right now let alone when Saban was at his best….but Smart is damned good and liable to get better
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:26 am to HighTide_ATL
quote:Isn't that what Saban did by coaching with Bill Bellecick then he went to Alabama?
then went to one of the easiest programs to succeed at
quote:
Dude did a great job biding his time and pouncing on a good situation. Does make me wonder if he could do the same coming into a place in bad shape though
Wait. Are we talking about Kirby or Saban? Which bad program did Saban succeed at...because I don't see one.
He coached at Michigan State and went 34-24-1.
This post was edited on 11/23/23 at 11:29 am
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:32 am to Govt Tide
Kirby did it in the East and playing Georgia Tech.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:32 am to HighTide_ATL
quote:
Both of which he mitigated by just copying ‘s approach as much as possible. I gave him credit for this strategy earlier in the thread
Actually Kirby did not copy Saban's approach. Saban is copying Kirby's approach.
When Kirby go his feet on the ground, Saban was transitioning to a pass first offense. Kirby stuck with a run first/defensive approach.
What was Alabama fans telling us Alabama was going to go back to? Run first defensive approach... after Kirby showed it was still an approach schools could win with.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:32 am to Nitro Express
quote:
Kirby did it in the East and playing Georgia Tech.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:34 am to Nitro Express
quote:
Kirby did it in the East and playing Georgia Tech.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:37 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Saban did not have to contend with the learning curve of the HC position in his first 8 years at his current job. Smart did. That curve is steep and dangerous. Smart won the SEC in his second year as a head coach at level.
And all he had to do was coach under Saban for 8 years and copy vast amounts of his approach to do it. I’ve already explained all this.
quote:
But smart did not learn how to win a conference title in his second year as a HC from Saban because Saban didn’t do it.
What does it take to succeed as a HC?
Smart didn’t learn how to get a program up and running from Saban? He didn’t learn how to hire assistants and staff, establish recruiting, implement practice schedules, foster a winning culture? None of this was acquired by working for Saban?
Remember the state that Alabama was in compared to UGA prior to each coach’s arrival. It’s not even close really which coach got a better situation handed to them
quote:
but Smart is damned good and liable to get better
Definitely agree Smart is a helluva coach, and in a great position for sustained success
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:46 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Isn't that what Saban did by coaching with Bill Bellecick then he went to Alabama?
You’re comparing spending 4 years in the NFL as a DC and transitioning to a HC job at Mich St (14 total wins over the previous 4 seasons including going winless the year before Saban got there), to Smart spending 8 years coaching and recruiting at a what Saban turned into a hyper-successful college program, then becoming the HC at another good college program in the same conference? You understand why these are vastly different correct?
quote:
Wait. Are we talking about Kirby or Saban? Which bad program did Saban succeed at...because I don't see one.
You’re going to try to tell a Bama fan that our program wasn’t in shambles when Saban arrived?
Let’s get serious
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:50 am to HighTide_ATL
quote:
You understand why these are vastly different correct?
I guess, but not like you think as That Msu HC job was BETTER for learning for the future than extra years as a DC.
quote:
You’re going to try to tell a Bama fan that our program wasn’t in shambles when Saban arrived?
Good enough to finish top 10 in 2005.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:58 am to djsdawg
The two are the best in college football today.
Look at the number of 10 win seasons. That is the proof.
Look at the number of 10 win seasons. That is the proof.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 12:06 pm to djsdawg
quote:
I guess, but not like you think as That Msu HC job was BETTER for learning for the future than extra years as a DC.
Except Smart got to benefit from the experience Saban gained by coaching and recruiting for him up until the second he became a head coach
Then he immediately just modeled his approach after Saban, and started recruiting the same kids for himself instead lol
quote:
Good enough to finish top 10 in 2005.
Yay, one 10 win season in 4 years. Followed it up by going 6-7 and just 2-6 in the conference.
And every single one of those 16 combined wins got vacated Saban’s first year for some textbook bs lol
This post was edited on 11/23/23 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 11/23/23 at 12:17 pm to HighTide_ATL
Or Saban benefited from Kirby’s recruiting and connection with kids and now he is doing it on his own.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 12:23 pm to HighTide_ATL
quote:
You’re comparing spending 4 years in the NFL as a DC and transitioning to a HC job at Mich St (14 total wins over the previous 4 seasons including going winless the year before Saban got there), to Smart spending 8 years coaching and recruiting at a what Saban turned into a hyper-successful college program, then becoming the HC at another good college program in the same conference? You understand why these are vastly different correct?
The NFL from college is like going from High School to College. They are a lot more compact and more gets done in a shorter time frame, so yes.
Either way, Saban learned from Bellichick and Kirby learned from Saban. There is no denying that, is there? Do you think Saban worked under Bellichick, one of the most demanding coaches in the NFL and did not learn anything? if this is what happened, then shame on Saban. And if you are going to make that claim, then I will claim that Kirby learned nothing from Saban. See how that works?
quote:
You’re going to try to tell a Bama fan that our program wasn’t in shambles when Saban arrived?
Let’s get serious
I am going to tell a Bama fan that Alabama has one of the richest histories in all of football. Do you deny this? I mean, all of you like to point out that Alabama will be fine when Saban leaves because Alabama has always been a power.
NOW you want to twist this in a different direction?
Posted on 11/23/23 at 12:28 pm to HighTide_ATL
quote:
Then he immediately just modeled his approach after Saban, and started recruiting the same kids for himself instead lol
Are you somehow inferring that Georgia and Alabama have not always gone after a lot of the same kids?
Posted on 11/23/23 at 12:51 pm to HighTide_ATL
quote:
Except Smart got to benefit from the experience Saban gained by coaching and recruiting for him up until the second he became a head coach
The benefit of:
4 DC years under bill b + 5 HC years at MSU + 5 HC years at LSU + 2 NFL HC years
>>>>>
8 DC years under saban.
By a lot.
quote:
Yay, one 10 win season in 4 years. Followed it up by going 6-7 and just 2-6 in the conference.
2006 was not far from 10 wins, just like uga 2015 wasn’t far from 6 wins. Both schools had top 10 seasons followed by a season bad enough to fire the coach. They are MUCH closer than you are willing to admit.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 1:09 pm to Nitro Express
quote:
Kirby did it in the East and playing Georgia Tech.
First, the GT thing.
Kirby (unlike Saban) doesn't play just one P5 team most seasons. In addition to GT every year he faced UNC, Clemson, Oregon and Notre Dame twice. UGA's OOC schedule is the best in the SEC bar none BECAUSE they play more than one P5 OOC team most years.
Bama has only played one a season since Kirby came to UGA, and I don't remember any years they had more than one scheduled while Richt was at UGA either. And some of those years they played teams like Louisville or Duke as their ONE P5 OOC opponent. It's not like they always scheduled Texas or USC every season.
As for playing in the east... last year the east was better than the west. The #2 east team beat the top 2 from the west. This year UGA's regular season conference schedule contained the same number of ranked conference opponents as Bama... 3. And the one they didn't have in common, UGA's opponent is ranked higher.
Kirby's success is coming when the east is superior to the west, so that part of your post doesn't hold water either.
Page 5 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News