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re: NCAA to open door for transfers to play immediately?
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:15 pm to Bham Bammer
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:15 pm to Bham Bammer
We could just recruit away any teams best players to either benefit us or hurt the other team
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Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:18 pm to pvilleguru
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I do think some are.
Well then it's up to the schools to advise them that the chances of them making millions as a professional athlete are slim, and even if you do, the shelf life for an athlete is rather small. Most athletes are not making money to support a lifetime. It is the job of the school to advise players that they need to take school seriously and the necessity to plan for life after sports are over, which for most is in their mid 20s. That has less to do with paying players as it does with integrity. And no amount of money the players receive will change that. If they're too stupid to think for themselves, as you believe some are, they are the people that need to take school seriously the most or they'll be taken advantage of their entire lives. And I still disagree, motivation to achieve a goal has nothing to do with intelligence. If these kids are making the minimum ACT scores to qualify then they have the requisite intelligence to earn a college degree in something. The athletes you're referring to just don't care.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:20 pm to lsufball19
quote:Which is why I think they should be able to make money as long as they are a commodity.
the shelf life for an athlete is rather small.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:21 pm to Bham Bammer
This is the dumbest fricking idea ever.
Now ever single kid worth a shite on either a G5 school or even non traditional P5s will be getting recruited to leave the entire time they are in school.
This is blatantly the "Haves" looking for a way to decimate the "Have nots".
Now ever single kid worth a shite on either a G5 school or even non traditional P5s will be getting recruited to leave the entire time they are in school.
This is blatantly the "Haves" looking for a way to decimate the "Have nots".
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:23 pm to tylerdurden24
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Again, the expectation should be that they are on top of their academics as well as their athletics but what's actually realistic and reasonable?
With as many athletes that graduate in 3 years, it's not the burden you're making it out to be to earn enough credits to graduate in something. You're right they do have a lot on their plate DURING THE SEASON. For football players, outside spring practice, they have plenty of time for their studies in the spring semester. They also generally take a full load in the summer to catch up on credits missed in the fall. They also have more resources available to them that other students don't. You mentioned study halls, those keep them on track. They have tutors free of charge if they're struggling. They have people help them with notes in class. You name it, they have it. There is no excuse not to graduate. The people who don't simply never made it a priority.
This post was edited on 1/17/18 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:25 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:First, the pro's contract is a obligation to their franchise, and restricts their movement, as does the college player's signature on their scholarship paperwork. If you eliminate them, the results would be catastrophic.
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It would be similar to pro athletes being able to freely move from one team to another.
Except not because pro athletes negotiate contracts that keep them in one place for a certain amount of time in exchange for a certain amount of money? Just because college students have this option doesn't mean they will hop around teams and conferences on a whim.
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Son, you need to get yourself out of that socialist, classroom and into the real world.
Please tell me youbrealize that what I'm advocating is capitalism, the exact opposite of socialism, right?
Secondly, I didn't mean to insinuate that your idea was socialistic (my fault), only that, imo, it's pie-in-the-sky thinking that looks good on paper, but doesn't work in the real world....similar to socialist ideas espoused in many university classrooms...I should have explained myself better.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:25 pm to tylerdurden24
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Not aimed at you in particular but y'all (collectively) do realize the sport as we know and love it is dying, right? The only question is how different it's going to look in 10-20 years.
It will be fine. It looks different to an SEC fan because of how different the SEC landscape is since... let's say, 2007. But that's just like, my opinion, man.
I didn't want the BCS to go away, I liked THAT how it was, too... but it appears that the round table of suits are doing a pretty fair job of selecting 4 teams so far. (not homeristic, but I certainly feel that way honestly).
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:26 pm to lsufball19
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How is it dying?
Well, conference expansion and historic rivalries are being dismantled to receive a bigger cut from high paying TV contracts (i.e Mizzou & Kansas, Texas & A&M, Nebraska and the Big 12, Syracuse and the Big East).
Coaches salaries and facility upgrades are out of control as schools have to seek ways to offload any money they've accumulated to maintain their non-profit status.
We have officially crossed the rubicon on too many bowls as the majority that now exist before December 27th attract no actual crowds but remain all the same because of the TV ad revenue they bring in (this one I honestly have a hard time griping about because I'm not going to look gift football in the mouth).
We are now up to 131 FBS programs as Liberty and Coastal Carolina join on the heels of former FCS teams like WKU, Ga State, App St, Ga Southern, Charlotte, etc because of the money being made on the FBS level. This has led to short term big raises for college presidents and ADs at those schools and longterm debts that may never be paid off because the schools can't afford the facilities upgrades required for membership.
Kickoff times and the length of games are now completely dictated by TV networks (resulting in playing a 3.5 hour conference game at Noon in September or an FCS opponent at 8PM in October)
And none of this is to speculate o what is going to happen to the Playoff situation moving forward. I for one am pretty happy with the 4 team format; I think it gets us as close to an undisputed champion as we can get in the sport. But we all know that TV and the search for money is going to expand it (needed or not) to 8 games and beyond because it puts more games on TV which brings in even more ad revenue (and the college decision makers will be damned before they say no because it means even bigger raises for them). The downside to all that with regards to the sport is that it effectively ruins the stakes of the regular season which aside form the rivalries is the best thing about college football.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:26 pm to Lonnie Utah
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The way I see this, it's an attempt to get some parity back.
this will 100% DECREASE parity.
You know what increases it? Scholarship limits and transfer rules that have you sit out a year.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:32 pm to Bham Bammer
That's insane. A school invests 2 years in developing a player so he can just go play immediately for their rival?
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:33 pm to Bham Bammer
This will not turn out well.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:38 pm to lsufball19
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With as many athletes that graduate in 3 years,
Because the non-revenue athletes aren't held to the same time constraints as basketball or football (nor do they have the same short-tenured professional prospects driving their immature decision making). There's a reason graduation rates for football and basketball teams tend to be a lot lower than pretty much every other sport at a given university.
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t's not the burden you're making it out to be to earn enough credits to graduate in something.
Going through the motions to receive a random degree in Sociology or Sports Management or Leisure Studies or whatever else happens to have a nebulous, relatively easy curriculum is a pretty weak degree experience. There's a difference between being counted as a graduate and receiving a meaningful degree.
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For football players, outside spring practice, they have plenty of time for their studies in the spring semester.
They have more time relative to the Fall, yes, but even in the Summer and Spring they still have to participate in "voluntary" workouts and film study.
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They also generally take a full load in the summer to catch up on credits missed in the fall.
They'll often take 2 semester system classes in the Summer which is not the same as a full load (quarter system may be different) which is usually enough to balance out any withdrawn or failed classes from the Spring or Fall or to boost a GPA if a particularly tough semester may be coming up.
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They also have more resources available to them that other students don't.
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They have tutors free of charge if they're struggling.
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hey have people help them with notes in class.
Other students actually have access to all the same resources (at UGA at least all the tutoring is free), they're just no required to attend a study hall or tutoring like athletes are (whether they need it or not). And note-takers are there for all students on campus but you usually have to provide reason for needing one (such as a diagnosed learning disability, not just because you're tired and want one). Of course, you could also just buy the notes for a given class at one of the off-campus bookstores in Athens
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:45 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:
Going through the motions to receive a random degree in Sociology or Sports Management or Leisure Studies or whatever else happens to have a nebulous, relatively easy curriculum is a pretty weak degree experience. There's a difference between being counted as a graduate and receiving a meaningful degree.
sure, but not having a degree at all is going to severely limit what jobs are available to them. Unless you want to do manual labor or work at Walmart, a college degree is pretty important, regardless of what it's in.
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They have more time relative to the Fall, yes, but even in the Summer and Spring they still have to participate in "voluntary" workouts and film study.
and regular students have part-time jobs throughout the year to get by financially.
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They'll often take 2 semester system classes in the Summer which is not the same as a full load (quarter system may be different) which is usually enough to balance out any withdrawn or failed classes from the Spring or Fall or to boost a GPA if a particularly tough semester may be coming up.
ok? You can take two classes each summer session. That's 2 hours every day of class for a little over 2 months. That's 12 hours of credits.
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Because the non-revenue athletes aren't held to the same time constraints as basketball or football (nor do they have the same short-tenured professional prospects driving their immature decision making). There's a reason graduation rates for football and basketball teams tend to be a lot lower than pretty much every other sport at a given university.
plenty of football players fall under this. It's not just non-revenue athletes that stay on top of their schoolwork
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Other students actually have access to all the same resources (at UGA at least all the tutoring is free), they're just no required to attend a study hall or tutoring like athletes are (whether they need it or not). And note-takers are there for all students on campus but you usually have to provide reason for needing one (such as a diagnosed learning disability, not just because you're tired and want one). Of course, you could also just buy the notes for a given class at one of the off-campus bookstores in Athens
my point was is that athletes have glorified babysitters (tutors and academic advisers) to keep them on track. Other students have to rely on themselves for that. No one will care if they pass or fail. I know my grades in undergrad would have been better than they were if I had someone on my arse every week. shite, I spent the second half of undergrad making up for slacking off the first half.
And if Michael Oher, a guy who barely qualified out of high school, is able to earn a degree and make the SEC honor roll twice, anyone can do it.
This post was edited on 1/17/18 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 1/17/18 at 4:53 pm to coachcrisp
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First, the pro's contract is a obligation to their franchise, and restricts their movement, as does the college player's signature on their scholarship paperwork. If you eliminate them, the results could be catastrophic.
FIFY. Could this rule be abused by a disgruntled player? Sure. But all I've seen in this thread is fear that coaches and programs will try to abuse the rule (which is a fair probability) but the answer is that we should just not even give players the option. I think the vast majority of players pick a school and stay there for better or for worse because they, you know, develop friend circles, relationships with coaches, etc. Some guys will leave, sure, but I don't think it will be a lot more than already occurs.
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Secondly, I didn't mean to insinuate that your idea was socialistic (my fault), only that, imo, it's pie-in-the-sky thinking that looks good on paper, but doesn't work in the real world....similar to socialist ideas espoused in many university classrooms...I should have explained myself better.
I get that it seems like pie-in-the-sky thinking but the principle really isn't anything that hasn't already been stated for the better part of 70 years (there are hundreds and thousands of books and articles on the argument, ranging from blogs and op-eds to peer reviewed journal articles. The problem has always been that the people in charge of the NCAA and any changes (college presidents and ADs) have no reason to change beyond bad PR.
Oh, and I haven't even mentioned Jeffrey Kessler or the O'Bannon lawsuits which are basically the world-ending comet headed toward the NCAA with an anti-trust suit that is probably going to end the college model entirely. But that's neither here nor there...
Posted on 1/17/18 at 5:05 pm to Bham Bammer
Alabama's kicking problems about to be over.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 5:08 pm to tylerdurden24
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Oh, and I haven't even mentioned Jeffrey Kessler or the O'Bannon lawsuits which are basically the world-ending comet headed toward the NCAA with an anti-trust suit that is probably going to end the college model entirely. But that's neither here nor there...
Posted on 1/17/18 at 5:13 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:You could be absolutely right about this, but again, we can only hope that if it happens, an appeals court somewhere will overturn the decision or at least revise it to a reasonable degree.
Oh, and I haven't even mentioned Jeffrey Kessler or the O'Bannon lawsuits which are basically the world-ending comet headed toward the NCAA with an anti-trust suit that is probably going to end the college model entirely. But that's neither here nor there...
My opinion of the future of amateur sport in this country is a bleak one, and the culprit in all of this is, bottomline......MONEY!
Posted on 1/17/18 at 5:16 pm to lsufball19
quote:
sure, but not having a degree at all is going to severely limit what jobs are available to them. Unless you want to do manual labor or work at Walmart, a college degree is pretty important, regardless of what it's in.
Fair.
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and regular students have part-time jobs throughout the year to get by financially.
Pretty large sweeping generalization there. I knew plenty of people in college that hadn't worked a day in their life until they the day they had graduated. As stupid a decision on their part as that was, point being some students work jobs and some don't. Players are more or less required to take on the extra workouts and film study in the offseason and only in rare circumstances (enough that the local beat usually writes an article on it when it happens) do you see a guy go through all the NCAA red tape necessary to find a part time job in the Spring or Summer.
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ok? You can take two classes each summer session. That's 2 hours every day of class for a little over 2 months. That's 12 hours of credits.
That's not how it works. I meant 2 classes (6 hours) over the Summer, period. I've never even known regular students that are crazy enough to take 12 hours over the Summer unless they are absolutely up against it and have to. And when someone has taken 9 hours (3 classes), the results aren't exactly ideal.
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plenty of football players fall under this. It's not just non-revenue athletes that stay on top of their schoolwork
I'm well aware that plenty of the 85 scholarship player and 20 or so Walk-Ons graduate with meaningful degrees. My point was relative to the other teams on campus, the graduation rates aren't typically going to stack up
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my point was is that athletes have glorified babysitters (tutors and academic advisers) to keep them on track. Other students have to rely on themselves for that. No one will care if they pass or fail. I know my grades in undergrad would have been better than they were if I had someone on my arse every week. shite, I spent the second half of undergrad making up for slacking off the first half.
That's the whole point of college, though. You'e supposed to learn to take responsibility for yourself and to be self-sufficient, including seeking out tutoring and study groups when you need them. The baysitting that goes on in college athletics has a lot less to do with making sure players receive a quality education and moreso with making sure that they stay eligible and have regimented schedules that keep them focused and out of trouble.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 5:17 pm to Bham Bammer
This will be bad news. Will be so many more transfers.
Though it may keep recruiting more honest. No more "you'll def start" then being on the bench. It does even it out for the players, but it is going to change how things are done for sure.
Though it may keep recruiting more honest. No more "you'll def start" then being on the bench. It does even it out for the players, but it is going to change how things are done for sure.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 5:20 pm to coachcrisp
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You could be absolutely right about this, but again, we can only hope that if it happens, an appeals court somewhere will overturn the decision or at least revise it to a reasonable degree.
O'Bannon set the precedent and survived appeal already. And along the way, the NCAA has done nothing but shoot both its feet clear off, both in and out of the courtroom. And this is far from kessler's first rodeo in anti-trust litigation. The results are going to be catastrophic, it's just a matter of when not if.
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My opinion of the future of amateur sport in this country is a bleak one, and the culprit in all of this is, bottomline......MONEY!
Agreed. While greed certainly built the sport, it is now beginning to kill it. Start churning enough money through a not for profit enterprise and it starts to attract a lot of unwanted attention.
This post was edited on 1/17/18 at 5:27 pm
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