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re: Brian Kelly reminds me a lot of Mark Richt
Posted on 7/24/23 at 10:51 pm to SemperFiDawg
Posted on 7/24/23 at 10:51 pm to SemperFiDawg
Kirby Smart reminded me a lot of Mark Richt until he didn’t.
Richt’s first 5 years at UGA:
2001 8–4
2002 13-1
2003 11–3
2004 10–2
2005 10-3
Smart’s first 5 years at UGA:
2016 Georgia 8–5
2017 Georgia 13–2
2018 Georgia 11–3
2019 Georgia 12–2
2020 Georgia 8–2
Almost identical. Kirby recruited elite talent, secured robust depth, and developed a championship culture. Kelly could do the same at LSU. It remains to be seen. One year without any depth isn’t enough time to form your conclusion, just like it wasn’t enough time for Kirby. Talk to me in 4 years.
Richt’s first 5 years at UGA:
2001 8–4
2002 13-1
2003 11–3
2004 10–2
2005 10-3
Smart’s first 5 years at UGA:
2016 Georgia 8–5
2017 Georgia 13–2
2018 Georgia 11–3
2019 Georgia 12–2
2020 Georgia 8–2
Almost identical. Kirby recruited elite talent, secured robust depth, and developed a championship culture. Kelly could do the same at LSU. It remains to be seen. One year without any depth isn’t enough time to form your conclusion, just like it wasn’t enough time for Kirby. Talk to me in 4 years.
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Posted on 7/24/23 at 11:25 pm to dstone12
quote:
But I still do t think y ou can use a sample size of one year.
Fair but it's accurate for his entire career too
Posted on 7/25/23 at 4:57 am to TouchdownTony
quote:
That A&M game was a head scratcher. To lose is one thing but they had zero answers for anything A&M was doing. kelly did the same thing at ND though.
It was obvious we not only cared but never prepared for a game that meant zero. We were looking forward to UGA since we already won the West!
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:10 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
I've never heard of anyone pretending that he started the year with 39 players.
Just the way some put it. "He only had 39 scholarship players!" as if that is what Kelly had. Yes, when y'all played your bowl game it was somewhere around 39 players. But there were far more than 39 when you played your first game.
quote:Yes it does, which is why I said that I understood it was much less than ideal.
The point is that only having 40 players on day 1 puts you so much further behind everyone else.
quote:Best move he could have made. Odd that he brought him from ND with him. Surely he had problems at ND?
He gone.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:13 am to wadewilson
quote:
Special teams were like that all season. We'll miss Polian for his talent evaluation and management, but not his coaching.
Sounds like what we went through with Coley.
We feel your pain.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:40 am to LSUstephen17
quote:
It was obvious we not only cared but never prepared for a game that meant zero.
You were #5 in the CFP rankings but sure. LSU fans.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:43 am to SemperFiDawg
You’re basing this off of one rebuild of a season where he took a lackluster LSU roster to a 10 win season. He is also a coach with a national championship and playoff appearance with Notre Dame as well as rebuilding that brand’s image.
There should be no comparison between him and Richt. Kelly is truly coaching talent, if you want a university comparison to Richt, look no further than Les. Georgia and LSU should have more hardware during their tenures with literally the most talent in college football along with Alabama. I’ve always said those two coaches with those specific programs underachieved with more than any coaches during their era. Name the endless talent and you’ll see why.
There should be no comparison between him and Richt. Kelly is truly coaching talent, if you want a university comparison to Richt, look no further than Les. Georgia and LSU should have more hardware during their tenures with literally the most talent in college football along with Alabama. I’ve always said those two coaches with those specific programs underachieved with more than any coaches during their era. Name the endless talent and you’ll see why.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 8:09 am to tenacious
quote:
Almost identical. Kirby recruited elite talent, secured robust depth, and developed a championship culture.
This is the key point, and it was in evidence during those years. I'm not going to go back and get the numbers again, but when you compare Kirby's classes to Richt's, you can see the difference in talent acquisition.
The thing with LSU is Orgeron actually recruited well at LSU.
2017 - 91.05 avg ranking
2018 - 90.11
2019 - 90.95
2020 - 93.26
2021 - 92.89
2022 - 91.62
2023 - 91.83
There hasn't been a real change in LSU recruiting. It's a little better than O's first 3 years and worse than his last 2.
Kelly isn't increasing LSU talent. He's a more consistent and better coach than Orgeron, but he's probably not quite as good a recruiter.
The other point you miss is that Richt was elite his first 5 years at UGA. He fell back from that rather than stepping up from that. A big reason for that is the difference in recruiting. Jim Donnan was a BETTER recruiter than Richt was. UGA's talent fell back to Richt's median level after the initial bump with the better recruits with Richt's coaching. Kirby's jumped ahead with his recruits.
While the wins and losses trail recruiting, if you look at the recruiting numbers you can often see what is coming.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 8:49 am to DaWGfan01
quote:
he is a bald face liar
Would it be better if he was a full head of hair faced liar
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 8:49 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 9:03 am to LSUstephen17
quote:
It was obvious we not only cared but never prepared for a game that meant zero. We were looking forward to UGA since we already won the West!
In theory had LSU beaten A&M then beaten UGA, they had a shot at the playoff.
So I don't think you can claim it meant zero. It only meant nothing if you'd already conceded the loss to UGA.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 9:10 am to vidtiger23
LSU is known for playing to the level of their opponent. I understand maybe you haven't been a fan for very long but this has been the case since at least the mid-90s with the exception of maybe a few years.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 9:40 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
this was kelly's first year at LSU. It's his 33rd year as a football head coach, 12 of which were at a blue blood. Considering Richt's first head coaching experience ever was being thrown into the SEC at UGA makes his accomplishments all the more impressive IMO. You hit on these things in your post, but then you conclude by going int he complete opposite direction. You say that as if it's a negative towards richt, and that this proves kelly is "more likely" to get things done. I have the complete opposite take away.
Richt had only coached in the SEC his whole career (I'm ignoring his brief swan song at miami when his health was already declining). In his 2nd year as a head coach he finished the season ranked as high as Kelly ever has in his 1A career. In his 7th year as a head coach Richt finished ranked higher than Kelly ever has. Richt has come closer to winning a natty thatn kelly has.
Take into account that only once (last year in 2022) has kelly had to run through an SEC season gauntlet, and it resulted in 4 losses.
Kelly did coach a blue blood, but it was Notre Dame. It's in Indiana and has academic requirements that are more like Vandy or Stanford than Bama and Georgia. It's possible to get them to playoff contention, but I'm not certain it was possible to get them to a championship level roster when Kelly was there. NIL might change that, since there's a lot of money there.
As for Richt getting closer to a title than Kelly, Kelly made the title game. They did get blown up by Bama, but I think that goes to prove my point above--given the conditions that existed when Kelly was there both on campus and in the sport, Notre Dame had handicaps that other blue bloods don't have to worry about as much.
Mark Richt was a great coach, full stop. When I say "get it done," I mean win a bunch of games. Winning a natty is hard, but I'll say this: the last 3 LSU coaches all won one, and 2 of them were idiots.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 9:43 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Best move he could have made. Odd that he brought him from ND with him. Surely he had problems at ND?
Polian was the ST coach at ND. I don't know how good their unit was, but there was almost complete turnover at special teams positions.
He was really good at talent evaluation, scouting, recruiting.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 9:53 am to LSUstephen17
quote:
We were looking forward to UGA since we already won the West!
Well that paid off handsomely.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 9:55 am to DawginSC
quote:
The thing with LSU is Orgeron actually recruited well at LSU.
2017 - 91.05 avg ranking
2018 - 90.11
2019 - 90.95
2020 - 93.26
2021 - 92.89
2022 - 91.62
2023 - 91.83
There hasn't been a real change in LSU recruiting. It's a little better than O's first 3 years and worse than his last 2.
Kelly isn't increasing LSU talent. He's a more consistent and better coach than Orgeron, but he's probably not quite as good a recruiter.
The thing with LSU is that Orgeron didn't actually recruit that well.
The 2018 class lost 10 before they made it to the 2019 team.
The top player from 2020 never made it to spring 2021. The 2nd ranked player from 2020 never met Kelly. 10 more players from that class did not make it to spring 2022.
2021 was better, but still, 4 of those players transferred out almost immediately.
ETA: If you want to make the argument that Orgeron is a better recruiter than Kelly.......maybe you're right. I think Kelly's place on this staff is more as a closer. But as a whole, this staff is better at scouting and recruiting, and that starts with Frank Wilson, who is probably the best recruiter in LSU history.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 10:00 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:12 am to DawginSC
Can't disagree with this DawsinSC. He's been very similar to Richt. Just judging on his first season here, with faster talent, I see progression.
Again, LSU is in the enviable position of being the only school in the talent rich state of Louisiana.
My guess is that he shrugs off the Richt comparisons within the next 2-3 years.
Again, LSU is in the enviable position of being the only school in the talent rich state of Louisiana.
My guess is that he shrugs off the Richt comparisons within the next 2-3 years.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:15 am to SemperFiDawg
Maybe, I guess we shall see.
Les Miles and Ed O won titles at LSU, so it’s not a stretch to think Kelly will too. I think everyone would agree Kelly is a much better coach than both of his predecessors.
As to your comparison to Richt, I believe Richt would have won a title at LSU too.
Les Miles and Ed O won titles at LSU, so it’s not a stretch to think Kelly will too. I think everyone would agree Kelly is a much better coach than both of his predecessors.
As to your comparison to Richt, I believe Richt would have won a title at LSU too.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 11:17 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:19 am to Louie
quote:When a shrimp boat captain and a grass eating caveman can find a way to win a NC at LSU, anyone can. Kelly will win a NC at LSU.
Hell Ed O, and Les Miles were litterally dummer than any other coaches in the history of the program yet still managed to each win National titles...
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:24 am to SemperFiDawg
Sounds like Les. Les lucked up into a Natty chance.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:32 am to RT1941
quote:
When a shrimp boat captain and a grass eating caveman can find a way to win a NC at LSU, anyone can
I don't agree with this mindset as it is. I agree with it if you add the caveat "...IF the situations come together just exactly perfectly".
Saban for instance doens't need some perfect confluence of events to happen for him to win it all. He's so good that he just can.
With Miles he had 2 loses including the last game of the regular season. He needed 2 major upsets on the final day of the season to jump from 7th to 2nd. Taht has nothing to do with les miles and everything to do with pure, dumb, astronomically unlikely luck.
Orgeron needed the eprfecdt marriage of a transfer rental paired up with an OC whose star shown so brightly so quickly that is essentially blinded the universe. People tend to forget joe burrow was there in 2018 as well adn they lost 3 games.
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