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re: Tua would've transferred if kept on sidelines for last game
Posted on 5/20/18 at 3:04 pm to 14&Counting
Posted on 5/20/18 at 3:04 pm to 14&Counting
I don’t blame Tua one bit. If I were a QB, and some guy who couldn’t throw a football continued to start over me game after game after game I would want out too.
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Posted on 5/20/18 at 3:23 pm to prevatt33
quote:
Saban was erring on the side of caution regarding turnovers. Your analogy was simply terrible and doesn't fit at all.
Apologies, but you're a 'Tua and 26' not happening away from sounding ignorant.
You can have a turnover or two when you score 30 points a half.
The Hurts experiment had provided more than enough data for anyone with a mathematical clue to see the offensive disaster vs uga as a near certainty... no ?
Try to tell me that you wouldn't have sold your Hurts stock short going into the playoffs. Go ahead... I dare ya.
You'd either be lying if you say you wouldn't have, or just another smuck losing his arse on the market due to cluelessness or lack of due diligence.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 3:49 pm to PowHound
quote:
Apologies, but you're a 'Tua and 26' not happening away from sounding ignorant.
You can have a turnover or two when you score 30 points a half.
The Hurts experiment had provided more than enough data for anyone with a mathematical clue to see the offensive disaster vs uga as a near certainty... no ?
Try to tell me that you wouldn't have sold your Hurts stock short going into the playoffs. Go ahead... I dare ya.
You'd either be lying if you say you wouldn't have, or just another smuck losing his arse on the market due to cluelessness or lack of due diligence.
I've read this post a few times now and I can't discern your point. That's not an insult - I just literally have no idea what you are trying to say.
Secondly, I don't think you have any clue what my position was or is on Bama's QB situation, and so I'll tell you.
I was as high on Hurts as anyone could be preseason last year. I expected him to take a major step forward. When he wasn't showing that step forward in September, I attributed it to conservative playcalling in order to not 'show our hand' early.
During October, I was happy with the Ws, but I was becoming really unhappy with the offense and could see, like everyone else, that Hurts had improved a bit, but not much.
I was ready for a change at QB until Hurts' performances in the 4th Qs vs LSU and MissSt. He actually made some plays thru the air and kept his eyes downfield. I thought maybe the light was coming on.
Keep in mind, Boz and others were reporting that while Tua was showing flashes of greatness, he had a nasty habit of throwing it to the defense in practice.
We lose to auburn, and I think it has much more to do with an inept Bama offense than injuries at LB. I'm firmly off the Hurts train. I want anybody else to play QB just because I'm sick of watching what our offense has become.
I expect to see Tua vs Clemson, but we spank them and it's not necessary. I still wish he had played.
And so I don't fault Saban for going with Hurts in the GA game given how we smashed Clemson. However, Hurts and our offense was awful, and so Saban pullled the trigger. Many pundits claim it was a bold move. It wasn't. It was his only move.
I believe that for most of last season, Hurts gave us the best chance to win given his running ability, his protecting the football, our defense, and our punting. However, I think that changed in November when Tua stopped throwing it to the defense in practice. However, Saban was the last to be convinced.
Thankfully, Saban mismanaged us into championship #17.
Going forward, I want Tua to get every meaningful snap. If Hurts plays QB1, I may lose my mind. Tua will be great and will throw some picks - it's fine.
And so, if you have any problem with the above, I invite you to build a time machine, travel back to last season, and go frick yourself.
This post was edited on 5/20/18 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 5/20/18 at 4:37 pm to prevatt33
prevatt33, you've brilliantly stated my feelings on this whole issue as well.
Folks who were stumping all last season for Tua to start over Jalen didn't (or wouldn't) believe the information coming out of practice regarding Tua and the turnovers. They also didn't (or wouldn't) understand Saban's stance on protecting the football as Job 1 of the QB.
And I'll guarantee anyone this: If Tua continues to throw a lot of interceptions during fall camp, he will not be the QB who trots out to take the first snap against Louisville.
I'm not a blind Jalen homer. I want the best team on the field, period. And personally, I think Tua is the best QB.
But I trust Saban to determine who makes up that best team, based on his criteria.
Folks who were stumping all last season for Tua to start over Jalen didn't (or wouldn't) believe the information coming out of practice regarding Tua and the turnovers. They also didn't (or wouldn't) understand Saban's stance on protecting the football as Job 1 of the QB.
And I'll guarantee anyone this: If Tua continues to throw a lot of interceptions during fall camp, he will not be the QB who trots out to take the first snap against Louisville.
I'm not a blind Jalen homer. I want the best team on the field, period. And personally, I think Tua is the best QB.
But I trust Saban to determine who makes up that best team, based on his criteria.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 4:40 pm to Sauron
Yup x infinity
Posted on 5/20/18 at 5:54 pm to prevatt33
When you have the best goddamn defense in the country year in and year out and some are on an historic level, you can afford a few turnovers if the tradeoff is an unstoppable offense where the highly talented and touted receivers become involved, thus opening up our smash mouth rushing attack. God only knows how many points we could put up with a complete game with a complete offense.
There is such a thing as erring on the side of caution and by October, it was quite apparent that was happening. So Tua throws it to the defense on occasion. He did that in Atlanta too, against the second best defense and probably the best team we faced all year. How'd that work out for them? They lost the fricking game TWICE! Once if our psycho transfer kicker hits an average distance FG late in the 4th, and once in OT on 2nd and 26. All those TO's you're worried about? They came against the BEST defense this side of the NFL and the only time we face it is in practice!
There is such a thing as erring on the side of caution and by October, it was quite apparent that was happening. So Tua throws it to the defense on occasion. He did that in Atlanta too, against the second best defense and probably the best team we faced all year. How'd that work out for them? They lost the fricking game TWICE! Once if our psycho transfer kicker hits an average distance FG late in the 4th, and once in OT on 2nd and 26. All those TO's you're worried about? They came against the BEST defense this side of the NFL and the only time we face it is in practice!
Posted on 5/20/18 at 7:05 pm to phil4bama
Bingo!
ETA: I think 14&Counting's post about why Saban was managing the QB situation the way he did seems spot on. But I'm not as risk averse as Saban is over occasional interceptions -- IF the QB is otherwise a very productive passer that opens up the offense -- a legit passing game opens up the running game. You've gotta have a balanced productive offense to beat other complete, talented, well-coached teams.
ETA: I think 14&Counting's post about why Saban was managing the QB situation the way he did seems spot on. But I'm not as risk averse as Saban is over occasional interceptions -- IF the QB is otherwise a very productive passer that opens up the offense -- a legit passing game opens up the running game. You've gotta have a balanced productive offense to beat other complete, talented, well-coached teams.
This post was edited on 5/21/18 at 10:10 am
Posted on 5/20/18 at 7:15 pm to phil4bama
quote:
There is such a thing as erring on the side of caution and by October, it was quite apparent that was happening.
Put yourself in Saban's position however....if you listen to him he always talks in terms of probabilities and percentages. That run in October beginning with Aggie and ending with MSU: Those games were never really in doubt with Jalen at QB. Bama wins based mainly on the talent differential, ball control-time of possession, filed position, and defense. Jalen was good at protecting the football, game managing, and most critically, not turning it over....and that was good enough to get the win.
So why would you exchange a sure win for a chance that we could lose? Particularly given what we were hearing from practices that Tua was still very green. We pay Saban the big bucks to bring home the wins. If Tua comes in on the road at Aggie and has a couple of turnovers and gets us behind the chains, I think that game turns out very differently. Same with LSU who played us very tough. Saban is going to play the percentages and go with the strategy that assures the win. Against those teams, Jalen could do enough to deliver.
This post was edited on 5/20/18 at 7:16 pm
Posted on 5/20/18 at 7:56 pm to 14&Counting
We also almost lost that game in Stark Vegas because we couldn’t move the football and score points. Only when Jalen uncharacteristically started looking downfield and connecting did we pull that one out. That was a game Tua could have made a very big difference and positive impact in. We’re fortunate that Saban’s stubbornness against changing QB’s didn’t cost us that one.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 10:24 pm to phil4bama
quote:
That was a game Tua could have made a very big difference and positive impact in.
It was also a game in which a single turnover at almost any point would have meant a defeat. Putting Tua into that situation at that point in his career would have been very risky. High risk, high reward ... but also a high chance of losing.
We had 444 total yards in that game, including 242 yards passing by Jalen (who went 10/18). We almost lost that game because we couldn't get off the field defensively on third down (MSU went 8 of 15 on third downs against us), and they controlled the clock as a result. They held the ball almost twice as long as we did.
Offensively, we were very efficient when we had the ball; we scored 31 points in 21 minutes of possession. We only seemed inept offensively because our opportunities were so few in that game. Frankly, I think that was one of Mullen's best coaching jobs in his entire career.
It smacks of revisionist history to say that was a poor game offensively. It wasn't pretty, by any stretch, but I'm not convinced Tua would have been the panacea some seem to think. Shoot, Hurts' adjusted QBR in that game was 91.7.
If Tua was still throwing interceptions in practice on a regular basis at that point, that's exactly the type of game he would have lost for us if he'd thrown one or two in Starkville.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 12:49 am to Sauron
Really nice post, sauron. Just the kind logical, fact-based analysis that's frequently hated around here. Good job.
Also,
Nice.
Also,
quote:
panacea
Nice.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 12:53 am to phil4bama
quote:
He did that in Atlanta too, against the second best defense and probably the best team we faced all year. How'd that work out for them?
This is the crux of the argument. January Tua didn't exist in October. He developed over time to turn into what we saw in Atlanta.
Why is that so difficult to understand?
Posted on 5/21/18 at 6:43 am to phil4bama
I really love this narrative that Hurts takes care of the ball while Tua is supposedly some liability. As if Hurts hasn’t fumbled at crucial times and that a string of 3 & outs isn’t as damaging as an interception.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 6:54 am to FairhopeTider
quote:
As if Hurts hasn’t fumbled at crucial times and that a string of 3 & outs isn’t as damaging as an interception.
I'm not positive with these stats, but I think Jalen lost only two fumbles in 2017.
A string of three and outs isn't as damaging as an interception, no. It's frustrating as all get-out, and I hate seeing it when it happens. But Saban values protecting the ball first and foremost. That's always been his mindset, and I don't think it's going to change.
As a fan, I want Tua to be the QB, because I think he gives us the best chance to score a lot of points. As a fan of Alabama, though, I want us to win the national championship each year. I don't care if we run the Notre Dame box and run the ball 95 percent of the time to reach that goal.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 6:57 am to Sauron
quote:
As a fan of Alabama, though, I want us to win the national championship each year.
Then, considering Hurts has failed in 2 chances, and Tua saved our arse to win the national title, you should feel confident that #13 is the right choice.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:17 am to Sauron
quote:
A string of three and outs isn't as damaging as an interception, no.
What was was more damaging in the National Championship Game? Jalen’s ineptitude in the first half or Tua’s second half INT? An interception might put our defense in a tough spot for a possession, but I’ll take that over offensive droughts that force the defense to play a perfect game.
And Jalen fumbled on our own side of the field against Clemson. It was a crucial moment in a crucial game and Jalen couldn’t take care of the ball.
This post was edited on 5/21/18 at 7:25 am
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:17 am to John Milner
JMO but I hope #2 doesn't return to TitleTown from his break. The distraction isn't needed. Best of luck to him. Jalen is as good a QB has he will ever be today. The only reason he has success is his great ability to make shet happen when he elects to run out of the pocket. His performance vs AU and UGA this year show just where he is as a QB when playing against talented defensive teams.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:47 am to JoseyWalesTheOutlaw
Once again, I hope Tua is the QB.
Having said that, I'll trust Saban to play whichever QB (or a player at any other position) gives us the best chance to win any given game.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 8:04 am to Sauron
I'm thoroughly impressed at well the board has been able to maintain this discussion perpetually for almost 4 months.
This post was edited on 5/21/18 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 5/21/18 at 8:11 am to Sauron
Sauron, to your point about Jalen’s numbers in Stark Vegas, you are making my argument for me. Despite State’s glaringly obvious inability to cover our receivers we only attempted 18 passes and only hit 10 of them yet it was still Jalen’s most productive game through the air. A more accomplished QB would have sliced and diced them for 300+ yards. And forced State out of that ball control game plan to play catch up.
I don’t care who plays QB and I don’t care if we play 3 yards and a cloud of dust football as long as we are winning AND as long as we are proficient in all phases of the game. It takes that to beat the teams we will face from November on. We don’t have that with a one dimensional QB and no passing game.
I don’t care who plays QB and I don’t care if we play 3 yards and a cloud of dust football as long as we are winning AND as long as we are proficient in all phases of the game. It takes that to beat the teams we will face from November on. We don’t have that with a one dimensional QB and no passing game.
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