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re: What Killed Ole Miss Football?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 9:43 am to DaleDenton
Posted on 4/18/14 at 9:43 am to DaleDenton
quote:
So why was Bear so ineffective while at Kentucky?
The popular story was the lighter vs cadillac folk story but the real truth was he could not beat the rival down south.
Bear was at UK 8 or 9 seasons and his 3 good years were in the middle. His first and last years as UK's coach were far less stellar. In his entire tenure in Lexington he never beat Tennessee which caused grumbling among the UK faithful.
Imagine if Texas never beat Texas A&M in almost a decade or if Alabama failed to beat Auburn in a similar time frame. Now imagine how hot the coaches seat would be at those schools with such a strong desire to beat the other school.
2
Posted on 4/18/14 at 9:46 am to Cheese Grits
(1) Integration (but that should only account for about 20 years of failure at most), and
(2) Lack of resources (they just haven't had the resources and money of competing schools through the years)
As to #2, that has changed with SEC TV deals and the like.
(2) Lack of resources (they just haven't had the resources and money of competing schools through the years)
As to #2, that has changed with SEC TV deals and the like.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 9:55 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Bear was at UK 8 or 9 seasons and his 3 good years were in the middle.
Wat
He finished rank in his final five seasons at UK?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 10:03 am to Tornado Alley
you can point to an exact, single event that was the major downfall of Ole Miss football.
That was when Vaught named his successor in Bob Tyler....Ole Miss chose to go with their buddy, Bruiser Kinard. Tyler ended up a few years later at MSU where he won a division title.
That was when Vaught named his successor in Bob Tyler....Ole Miss chose to go with their buddy, Bruiser Kinard. Tyler ended up a few years later at MSU where he won a division title.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 10:08 am to pankReb
quote:
you can point to an exact, single event that was the major downfall of Ole Miss football.
That was when Vaught named his successor in Bob Tyler....Ole Miss chose to go with their buddy, Bruiser Kinard. Tyler ended up a few years later at MSU where he won a division title.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 10:14 am to DingDongEddieStrong
quote:
A few reasons:
-The obvious is our inability to recruit black players. Other schools in the South, namely Alabama, had the same issues the University had, but Bear Bryant realized they were superior athletes. Once he decided this was fine, UA was cool with it. Ole Miss did this far too late, and the gap worsened.
-We divided our home games between Oxford and Jackson, like Arkansas does with LR & Fayetteville and Alabama did with Birmingham & T-town. For years, we would play our bigger games in Jackson because the stadium was bigger, thus neglecting VHS and not improving our facilities until 1997 when Tuberville arrived. He made a focus to improve the facilities in Oxford, getting rid of all home games in Jackson and improve the home field advantage on campus. This is also when the Grove became the tailgate spectacle it is today.
-Lack of leadership in the athletic department. UM has had horrible leadership from 1960 until 2011, hiring ex-Vaught players to run the department when they absolutely were not qualified. The Good Ole Boy System completely destroyed all athletic programs in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Our current AD, Ross Bjork, is the first AD we have had that was a complete outsider to the program, and he has made tremendous improvements from an admin. level that Oxford has never had before.
-There are around 8 public universities in a state that has less than 3 million residents. Two are in the SEC and have to split resources between each other and smaller schools. You have one College Board running the entire system, not individual Board of Trustees making decisions for each school like everyone else has. There again, it comes down to leadership.
Almost all of this is correct and well-stated. The only part I think is a little-off is the first. OM integrated at about the same rate as the other SEC schools. I don't think there was any big disparity in this regard.
If someone wanted to do the Rant and interesting comparison, create a chart showing the number of black players per school per year from 1970-1980.
More than anything, when Vaught left it created a vacuum which has only been partially filled from time-to-time.
Sloan - a disaster
Brewer solid until he went idiot
Tubs solid until he left.
Cutcliffe - ok
Orgeron - another disaster
Nutt - recruiting disaster
Freeze - great mind on O; but will need someone of equal ability as DC for OM to compete for championships.
IMO, OM is doing things at present as right as they have in the last 40+ years.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 10:15 am to S.E.C. Crazy
1. First and foremost, some bad things went down in Mississippi, the state, during the 60s. George Wallace stood at the steps at UA when they integrated, Ole Miss had the national guard firing at students. When Ole Miss finally started recruiting black players, it was too late.
2. The Mississippi HBCUs were relevant. Walter Payton, Jerry Rice and Steve McNair, all Pro Football Hall of Famers are all arguably the best to ever play their positions. All went to different Mississippi HBCUs. That wasn't happening in other SEC states.
3. All of the white guilt caused these schools to receive funding at the same or higher levels than Ole Miss and MSU.
4. Ole Miss did not establish itself as one of the premier game day atmospheres until the 90s. Prior to that, they played big home games in Jackson. I remember going to an MSU-Alabama/Ole Miss-LSU doubleheader where you could get tickets at Jitney Jungle for $15! Could you imagine that now?
5. Ole Miss had some craptastic leadership in the 70s, 80s and early 90s that allowed everyone else in the SEC to just pass them. Donald Zacharias coming to MSU and giving a damn and hiring Jackie got them off their asses.
2. The Mississippi HBCUs were relevant. Walter Payton, Jerry Rice and Steve McNair, all Pro Football Hall of Famers are all arguably the best to ever play their positions. All went to different Mississippi HBCUs. That wasn't happening in other SEC states.
3. All of the white guilt caused these schools to receive funding at the same or higher levels than Ole Miss and MSU.
4. Ole Miss did not establish itself as one of the premier game day atmospheres until the 90s. Prior to that, they played big home games in Jackson. I remember going to an MSU-Alabama/Ole Miss-LSU doubleheader where you could get tickets at Jitney Jungle for $15! Could you imagine that now?
5. Ole Miss had some craptastic leadership in the 70s, 80s and early 90s that allowed everyone else in the SEC to just pass them. Donald Zacharias coming to MSU and giving a damn and hiring Jackie got them off their asses.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:04 am to AlwysATgr
quote:
IMO, OM is doing things at present as right as they have in the last 40+ years.
Agreed. We're funding the capital projects (please god let us find the funds to bowl in the stadium), and, also, building quality depth.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:11 am to Tornado Alley
we received a 2 million dollar gift yesterday at either the Oxford or Tupelo stop of the RRT. Names haven't been released yet.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:20 am to MIZ_COU
quote:
madras shorts and bow ties
I laughed so fricking hard.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:42 am to pankReb
In addition to everything that's been mentioned, they just couldn't get/keep the right coach.
It's been proven time and time again that no matter how great your program is, without a solid coach, you aren't going to be successful.
It's been proven time and time again that no matter how great your program is, without a solid coach, you aren't going to be successful.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:45 am to Wolfpacleader
How much did negative recruiting hurt Ole Miss?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:53 am to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Colonel Reb was modeled after a black man
Albino?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:55 am to Stonehog
Yella bone
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:56 am to Eventual_Seizure
quote:
Yella bone
Actually the guy was full on Dark Chocolate.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:57 am to JBeam
quote:
How much did negative recruiting hurt Ole Miss?
Tuberville talked about it some while he was here. It wasn't pretty because we still had fricking confederate flags flying in the stadium when he started coaching for us. Hard to get players to play for you when that's going on.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 11:59 am to cardboardboxer
Spin off thread....."When will Ole Miss football start?"
Posted on 4/18/14 at 12:00 pm to thatdude1985
After we beat that elephant arse this year 
Posted on 4/18/14 at 12:11 pm to cardboardboxer
1964?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 12:21 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Tuberville talked about it some while he was here. It wasn't pretty because we still had fricking confederate flags flying in the stadium when he started coaching for us. Hard to get players to play for you when that's going on.
Freshmen year was 1996 and you didn't go to a home game without having 2 little confederate flags - one for you and one for your date. At the time, it just seemed normal. Looking back, idiotic as it gets. After Tubs called for it to quit, for a while we replaced those flags with a red flag with a navy block M with stars in it, just like the confederate flag almost. Crazy stupid.
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