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re: Equal Talent - Better Coach, Mullen or Saban?
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:51 am to PearlJam
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:51 am to PearlJam
quote:
Gameday coach only - there is an argument for many ahead of Saban, including Mullen.
That isn't how college football works though.
Agreed. Saban creates a culture in the program nobody else can really match. That and dominant recruiting means he can simply be an above average gameday coach and still get top results.
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Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:54 am to BhamDore
quote:
For all of his love for DBs Bama's secondary is often the weakest link on the whole team more times than not.
Yes and all the pick sixes over the last few years bear that out.
He is a very good DB coach. Fans just build him up to be something no coach could reach. A db gives up a TD and we all lose our minds trying to figure out at how a Saban coached DB could allow a catch. News flash - the other team is trying too and sometimes make plays. Oh and the other team in many cases has very good players as well.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:56 am to DeltaDoc
Saban ability to get people ready to play and to actually get players to do their job is pretty amazing.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:59 am to holdmydak
quote:
Hell, I believe Sumlin is a great Football coach, what he was doing at Houston with little talent was amazing. He can't handle the prima donna's though, that's why they go through more 5 star QB's than Hugh Freeze does hookers.
go through more 5 star QB's than Hugh Freeze does hookers.
go through more 5 star QB's than Hugh Freeze does hookers.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:01 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Agreed. Saban creates a culture in the program nobody else can really match. That and dominant recruiting means he can simply be an above average gameday coach and still get top results.
Nailed it. I don't understand why saying this gets Bama fans so worked up. Saban told Mal Moore the exact same thing on the plane to Tuscaloosa in January 2007.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:03 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:05 am to TheDawgBiscuit
quote:
Sabah could be the greatest College coach ever. At least top 5.
I have mixed feelings on this, to be the best ever IMHO he would have to have taken a program from the hinterlands to the top and there have been a few to have done that.
To me he is like Phil Jackson, a great coach without a doubt but always seem to land somewhere with so many advantages it would be hard to lose.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:09 am to DeltaDoc
Saban- he sold his soul to the devil in exchange for championships . That takes dedication.
Mullen has a European Humpback, I bet he eats his boogers when nobody is looking.
Mullen has a European Humpback, I bet he eats his boogers when nobody is looking.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:09 am to DeltaDoc
In 2007, Saban kept a pretty bad Bama team competitive in all their games (toe-to-toe with LSU for example) and pulled out a win or 2 where he had the less talented team (Vols - even with a bunch of suspensions).
On the other hand, Mullen has a tendency to get blown out by more talented teams and struggle with mediocre teams.
On the other hand, Mullen has a tendency to get blown out by more talented teams and struggle with mediocre teams.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:10 am to DeltaDoc
Considering Saban has shut down Merlin's Mickey mouse offense every year at State to the tune of 0-8. I would say Saban.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:12 am to CaptainBrannigan
quote:
Considering Saban has shut down Merlin's Mickey mouse offense every year at State to the tune of 0-8. I would say Saban.
Can't knock his success rate against Mullen, but what exactly is Mickey Mouse about a run-focused spread? It's basically the same thing Saban runs now.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:13 am to cave canem
quote:
to be the best ever IMHO he would have to have taken a program from the hinterlands to the top
Saban took a Bama team from back-to-back losses to MS State to dynasty.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:13 am to cave canem
quote:
be the best ever IMHO he would have to have taken a program from the hinterlands to the top
May I present LSU Football from 1989-1999?
58-65
8 losing seasons out of 11
7-15 the 2 seasons before he arrived
0 Top 10 finishes
2 Top 25 Finishes
2 Top 10 Finishes since 1971
LSU isn't exactly Kansas State pre-Snyder but they were not a national player in any sense of the word. We all know what they were when Saban left.
Hell, do you remember what Alabama was from 1998-2006?
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:14 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:17 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:I did this chart before the start of the 2016 season I believe.
I mean, Saban is what 5-1 in national championship games? Pretty solid gameday coach as well as running the program
Saban is not elite when facing equal competition compared to some coaches. For example, Pete Carroll. Pete excels at coaching against equal competition compared to Nick. But Saban kicks his arse at not having down games agaisnt inferior talent
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:20 am to DeltaDoc
Mullen is certainly a fine football coach. But Saban may go down as one of the ,if not THE best ever. That doesn't mean anything wrong or negative about Mullen. But Saban is the best.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:21 am to PearlJam
quote:
I'm not saying he isn't, but he is playing with superior talent and depth in every game, so citing his record isn't really saying much.
Not necessarily true. What's his record in conference championship games?
Was there a big talent gap between Alabama and Florida in 2009? Was Greg McElroy more talented than Tim Tebow? Yet which one was the SECCG MVP? You don't think that was due in large part because of game day coaching?
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:22 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:24 am to Eli Goldfinger
quote:Saban was 7-6 in 2007 with the previous 3 recruiting classes being 11,18,15
In 2007, Saban kept a pretty bad Bama team competitive in all their games (toe-to-toe with LSU for example) and pulled out a win or 2 where he had the less talented team (Vols - even with a bunch of suspensions).
Mullen averages going 8-5 in Starkville with average recruiting rankings around 40
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:25 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:Saban was 8-10 against top 10 teams going into the 2016 season at Bama(equal competition, as Bama has also finished in the top 10). Look at my chart.
Not necessarily true. What's his record in conference championship games?
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:26 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:25 am to lsupride87
quote:
Saban is not elite when facing equal competition compared to some coaches. For example, Pete Carroll. Pete excels at coaching against equal competition compared to Nick. But Saban kicks his arse at not having down games agaisnt inferior talent
A lot of it has to do with the whole way you run your program, IMHO.
Carroll was (a much better version, obviously) like Nutt. Lot of emotion and hype with his guys. They played loose and free. This led to being really, really good in huge games. However, when you base your culture on emotion it is almost impossible to have that same level of emotion for a trip to Corvallis or Pullman than it is playing Oklahoma in the National Title game.
Saban's philosophy is the exact opposite, obviously. That's why we've won 10 straight years worth of games against teams outside the Top 25. However, you don't always get that overdrive maximum capacity emotional effort in big games.
Double edged sword I guess. Personally, I'd rather have the robotic approach, especially with 18-22 year olds. However, Carroll and Saban were/are the elite coaches at both methods and both seemed to work pretty well.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:26 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:Agree with everything you just said
A lot of it has to do with the whole way you run your program, IMHO.
Carroll was (a much better version, obviously) like Nutt. Lot of emotion and hype with his guys. They played loose and free. This led to being really, really good in huge games. However, when you base your culture on emotion it is almost impossible to have that same level of emotion for a trip to Corvallis or Pullman than it is playing Oklahoma in the National Title game.
Saban's philosophy is the exact opposite, obviously. That's why we've won 10 straight years worth of games against teams outside the Top 25. However, you don't always get that overdrive maximum capacity emotional effort in big games.
Double edged sword I guess. Personally, I'd rather have the robotic approach, especially with 18-22 year olds. However, Carroll and Saban were/are the elite coaches at both methods and both seemed to work pretty well.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:28 am to DeltaDoc
When talent is equal, even Sly Croom is a better coach than Saban.
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