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re: Bama has 1 NC in the AP/Coaches Polls era since 1936 without Bear Bryant or Nick Saban
Posted on 1/14/24 at 7:16 pm to rolltide32
Posted on 1/14/24 at 7:16 pm to rolltide32
At this point I don’t think BlackCloud has a clue what his argument is other than LSU is better that Alabama. I think he has thrown his back out contorting himself so much.
1
Posted on 1/14/24 at 7:51 pm to captdalton
quote:
captdalton
Damn Capt,I thought this thread died this morning.
I had my fun yesterday but if you insist I can give it another go just for the hell of it.
quote:I never said at any point in this thread or any other that LSU is "better" than bama.
At this point I don’t think BlackCloud has a clue what his argument is other than LSU is better that Alabama.
The OP is 100% factually correct and I stand behind everything else I posted in this thread.
It's a fact that Bear and Nick won 12 AP/Coaches Poll era NCs in 42 years combined since 1936.
It's a fact that 8 other coaches at Bama won 1 NC in 45 years combined in the same era.
If that makes bama fans and a few others uncomfortable I'm not sorry.
As a matter of fact, it was more of a mission accomplished deal for me.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 7:53 pm to BlackCloud
You're one of those "we would have won if not for your scoring plays" kind of guy aren't you?
Posted on 1/14/24 at 8:00 pm to BlackCloud
Interestingly, Bama has appeared at #1 in the AP poll 140 times… 30 of those weekly appearances at #1 were under Bryant and 109 were under Saban.
Apart from these two legendary coaches, Bama has appeared at #1 just one week ever- the final poll of the 1992 season.
Apart from these two legendary coaches, Bama has appeared at #1 just one week ever- the final poll of the 1992 season.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 8:06 pm to AUTiger789
quote:
Apart from these two legendary coaches, Bama has appeared at #1 just one week ever- the final poll of the 1992 season.
Not our fault that only one voter had any clue who the best team in the country was in 1992. Guy received threats for not voting for Miami when it became public.
Also it would have been unpatriotic of us to have been #1 at any point in 1945 despite going undefeated.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 8:07 pm to Forever
This is some cruel and evil stuff. So much hatred over football.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 8:07 pm to AUTiger789
quote:
Apart from these two legendary coaches, Bama has appeared at #1 just one week ever- the final poll of the 1992 season.
Wow-didn't know that! That's kinda the pont of this thread.
Yes, Bear and Nick are inarguably the two greatest coaches in CFB history.
But the rest of the SEC has nothing to fear without a GOAT on the sideline at Bama. That's just a fact.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 8:09 pm to AUTiger789
quote:
Apart from these two legendary coaches, Bama has appeared at #1 just one week ever- the final poll of the 1992 season.
That is wild.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 8:43 pm to Bamarap
quote:
This is some cruel and evil stuff. So much hatred over football.
The OP screams and cries in other threads about people using a selective timeframe and he got trolled into doing the very same thing.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 8:56 pm to BlackCloud
So what you're actually trying to say is that Alabama fans should be worried. At the end of the day, that's what you're trying to tell us.
Of course, long time Alabama fans are more intimately familiar with the coaches that were hired post-Bryant and post-Stallings than you'll find looking up coaching records.
There was a huge push to keep the HC as "part of the family" - someone who had played at Alabama or coached with Bryant.
First, a little backstory.
Eventual HOF Coach, Frank Thomas, was the first HC for the AP Poll era (and pre-dated it).
During those years, national champions were named before bowl games, and in 1937 Alabama was one of 4 undefeated teams (and the only undefeated, untied team) at the end of the regular season but finished 4th.
In 1945 Alabama went undefeated, but finished second to Army (also undefeated).
Harold Drew was an... okay coach. Not bad, but only won the SEC once. So he was let go for the ultimate mistake, JB "Ears" Whitworth.
Ears won only 4 games in 3 seasons at Alabama, and had to go. So in came Coach Bryant.
Coach Bryant had gotten close, but had never won a national title anywhere else.
After Bryant came the "the next guy HAS to be from Alabama or coached with Bryant". As many Auburn and Texas fans can attest to, booster interference can ruin coaching searches.
Ray Perkins was a former player at Alabama, and coached just 4 seasons with the Tide - his best season was a 10-3 record his final year with a top 10 finish. Pressure from the job convinced him to leave to coach at Tampa Bay.
Breaking ranks from the "tree" mentality, Bill Curry was hired. He didn't last long, losing all 3 games against Auburn (a cardinal sin back then), despite going 10-2 and a top 10 finish his final year. Alabama peaked at #2 that season, and if they had won that Iron Bowl then the Sugar Bowl would've been for the national title.
Gene Stallings' success was seen as the boosters being proven "right" that a Bryant student was the best for Alabama. Not only did Stallings win the national title in 1992, he often won the West, and in his 7 years finished with 10+ wins 4 times and 3 top 5 finishes. His last season Alabama finished just outside the top 10, at #11.
Here come the dark times.
DuBose was the "heir apparent" - a former player and DL coach turned DC, then HC. The job, though, was WAY too big for him - he let boosters run wild, including the recruitment of Albert Means. Despite being one of the worst coaches in the history of Alabama, he still managed to win the SEC at least once and finish #8 (including beating Spurrier twice - one of which was the second largest beating in an SECCG until 2010).
Fran was just here for two years, getting 10 wins that second season, before bolting for A&M. We still extend A&M our thanks for that to this day.
Then came the Mike Price debacle, which set back the next coaching search. Mike Shula was named, and took over while Alabama was under heavy sanctions. He did the best he could, and did manage a 10 win season and top 8 finish in 2005.
Of course, then on comes Saban and the rest is history.
The argument is that only the GREATEST coaches come to Alabama and win national titles - but Bryant didn't win one anywhere else, and Saban had just one out of 11 years of HC experience prior (only eclipsing the 10 win mark twice during those stretches, prior to Alabama).
At no point did we hire a coach coming off of winning CotY nor having played for a national title and finishing #2.
So, at the end of the day, if you're wondering why - just WHY CAN'T THESE ALABAMA FANS BE SCARED?
It's because we know our history a lot better than you do apparently.
Of course, long time Alabama fans are more intimately familiar with the coaches that were hired post-Bryant and post-Stallings than you'll find looking up coaching records.
There was a huge push to keep the HC as "part of the family" - someone who had played at Alabama or coached with Bryant.
First, a little backstory.
Eventual HOF Coach, Frank Thomas, was the first HC for the AP Poll era (and pre-dated it).
During those years, national champions were named before bowl games, and in 1937 Alabama was one of 4 undefeated teams (and the only undefeated, untied team) at the end of the regular season but finished 4th.
In 1945 Alabama went undefeated, but finished second to Army (also undefeated).
Harold Drew was an... okay coach. Not bad, but only won the SEC once. So he was let go for the ultimate mistake, JB "Ears" Whitworth.
Ears won only 4 games in 3 seasons at Alabama, and had to go. So in came Coach Bryant.
Coach Bryant had gotten close, but had never won a national title anywhere else.
After Bryant came the "the next guy HAS to be from Alabama or coached with Bryant". As many Auburn and Texas fans can attest to, booster interference can ruin coaching searches.
Ray Perkins was a former player at Alabama, and coached just 4 seasons with the Tide - his best season was a 10-3 record his final year with a top 10 finish. Pressure from the job convinced him to leave to coach at Tampa Bay.
Breaking ranks from the "tree" mentality, Bill Curry was hired. He didn't last long, losing all 3 games against Auburn (a cardinal sin back then), despite going 10-2 and a top 10 finish his final year. Alabama peaked at #2 that season, and if they had won that Iron Bowl then the Sugar Bowl would've been for the national title.
Gene Stallings' success was seen as the boosters being proven "right" that a Bryant student was the best for Alabama. Not only did Stallings win the national title in 1992, he often won the West, and in his 7 years finished with 10+ wins 4 times and 3 top 5 finishes. His last season Alabama finished just outside the top 10, at #11.
Here come the dark times.
DuBose was the "heir apparent" - a former player and DL coach turned DC, then HC. The job, though, was WAY too big for him - he let boosters run wild, including the recruitment of Albert Means. Despite being one of the worst coaches in the history of Alabama, he still managed to win the SEC at least once and finish #8 (including beating Spurrier twice - one of which was the second largest beating in an SECCG until 2010).
Fran was just here for two years, getting 10 wins that second season, before bolting for A&M. We still extend A&M our thanks for that to this day.
Then came the Mike Price debacle, which set back the next coaching search. Mike Shula was named, and took over while Alabama was under heavy sanctions. He did the best he could, and did manage a 10 win season and top 8 finish in 2005.
Of course, then on comes Saban and the rest is history.
The argument is that only the GREATEST coaches come to Alabama and win national titles - but Bryant didn't win one anywhere else, and Saban had just one out of 11 years of HC experience prior (only eclipsing the 10 win mark twice during those stretches, prior to Alabama).
At no point did we hire a coach coming off of winning CotY nor having played for a national title and finishing #2.
So, at the end of the day, if you're wondering why - just WHY CAN'T THESE ALABAMA FANS BE SCARED?
It's because we know our history a lot better than you do apparently.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 9:23 pm to skrayper
quote:
So what you're actually trying to say is that Alabama fans should be worried. At the end of the day, that's what you're trying to tell us.
Nah, bama fans are already worried as they should be.
You can deny it all you want but deep down you know this thing could go south with quickness.
LSU baseball fans were worried when Skip retired in 2001 and we were rgiht.
LSU baseball didn't win another NC until 2009 after he retired.
Great coacheas are rarely followed by another great coach in any sport because truly great coaches are that few and far between.
I have no idea how good Deboer will be at bama (nobody does),
but I would bet the house that he will not come close to what Saban or Bear accomplished.
The thread was really just a fact based look at how even though bama is still the best program in all of college football,
most of (almost all) of the success as it relates to winning NCs is due to Bear and Nick in the AP/Coaches Poll era.
quote:
So, at the end of the day, if you're wondering why - just WHY CAN'T THESE ALABAMA FANS BE SCARED?
It's because we know our history a lot better than you do apparently.
So you're saying Deboer will do just as well as Nick and Bear? Don't do that to yourself, your sister and y'alls kids.
Posted on 1/14/24 at 9:27 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Ok. Take away Saban, Les Miles and Ed Orgeron’s tenures at LSU and what does their history look like?
Like Mississippi State
Posted on 1/15/24 at 4:16 am to BlackCloud
quote:
So you're saying Deboer will do just as well as Nick and Bear? Don't do that to yourself, your sister and y'alls kids
Never said that. That’s a very weak straw man argument you tried there.
We don’t need greatest coach in college football #3, as you seem to think. The simple matter is that, outside of Stallings, the other coaches were downright bad (with Curry being the only possible outlier among non-national champs).
Even really bad coaches have won the SEC at Alabama. So anytime someone expends a large amount of energy trying to convince me I should be worried it becomes clear that’s the person who’s actually worried.
Posted on 1/15/24 at 6:23 am to BlackCloud
LSU has 0 national championships with out saban. If he didn't lay down a strong foundation your dimwitted coaches win nothing
Posted on 1/15/24 at 8:55 am to bamabaseballsec
quote:
LSU has 0 national championships with out saban. If he didn't lay down a strong foundation your dimwitted coaches win nothing
LSU won 2 NCs with two dimwitted coaches in a row after Nick left.
Yet bama had zero NC's with the two coaches that followed Frank Thomas from 1947-1957, the two coaches that followed Bear Bryant from 1983-1989 and the three coaches that followed Gene Stallings from 1997-2006.Did they not lay down a strong foundation?
Did Nick lay down a strong foundation at Michigan ST? How many NCs did they win when he left?
Did Nick lay down a strong foundation at Miami in the NFL?How many Super Bowls did they win when he left?
I'd like someone to answer these questions for me.
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