re: "I will be taking a knee every game in high school this season." - Kayvon Thibodeaux

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Except for the “unaware” part, maybe. Anyone can get a student loan these days. Anyone. Just about anyone can join the military and take advantage of the GI Bill. There is no lack of opportunity in this country.

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I know I’m yelling into the wind but go to a public high school where the college counseling staff is understaffed and underfunded. The staff barely has anytime to work with the kids. Some of them have caseloads of hundreds of students. Some of the best kids are influenced by kids and adults around them to avoid college because of their own insecurities. Some are working to help their parents support a household. Any one can get a Federal student loan but they pay a fraction of college. A student from a low income/no income family just can’t walk in and get a private loan. I work with kids who have money who have no ID how the GI Bill works, what a yellow ribbon school is, what a military academy is etc. It isn’t as easy to enlist as it use to be LINK Financial concerns, family issues and no support in the application process are just a few things they talented well qualiified lower income students face. This response is just frustrating. Please volunteer in the college counseling office of a low income, understaffed high school, I guarantee you will see what I am talking about.

Honestly, I don’ t understand why it is negative or whining to want to make schools better.

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The bottom line is one can find ways or one can find excuses.

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We can have this sentiment and want to improve our high schools and access to college though right? My worst off students are the ones that complain the least and work the hardest. These things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Fair enough, we will probably disagree on this but I label not having support for the application process, ignorance of schools and resources, and lack of money (along with some admissions practices) lack of opportunity. But I get what you are saying.

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I know I’m yelling into the wind but go to a public high school where the college counseling staff is understaffed and underfunded.

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Carlton, I'm not sure you have a lot of experience with this. It's typical for most schools to have a single counselor. If it's a large, wealthy school, there might be one for each grade, but that's rare, at least in Alabama.

Is this supposed to be about race, somehow? I know the thread started out that way, but I'm not going to read a bunch of garbage to wade through offensive posts.

Two of my kids graduated in classes that were 90% black and less than 5% white. I can assure you that the resources available to that school were no different than the mostly white schools they attended previously. You're probably my favorite poster on this board (sick of the Jalen hating inbreds), but you're dead wrong on this.

We all want to make schools better, but throwing money isn't always the answer. Tarrant City Schools and Trussville City Schools spend the same amount per student. They are ten miles apart, but one is top 5 in the state, and one is among the worst. The common thread among bad schools is bad parents, regardless of race. If you are the child of a teenager, or the child of a single mother with no father present, your chance of success is almost zero, regardless of the amount of money thrown at you. Simply because your parents place no value on education.

If you ever want to change disparity in educational outcomes between wealthy and poor, the best solution is to examine why those people are in poverty to begin with. As unpopular as it is to say, it is almost ALWAYS because of poor choices. Not always, but almost always.

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Carlton, I'm not sure you have a lot of experience with this. It's typical for most schools to have a single counselor. If it's a large, wealthy school, there might be one for each grade, but that's rare, at least in Alabama. 

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I am an independent college counselor with a master's degree in education. Before that I was an admissions officer. I'm pretty sure I am easily one of the most qualified people you will speak to. Public schools in more affluent areas have larger staffs, more resources, better letters of recommendation, better teachers, more parental volunteer support, and see more support from colleges because they see higher acceptance rates.

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Is this supposed to be about race, somehow? I know the thread started out that way, but I'm not going to read a bunch of garbage to wade through offensive posts. 

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This particular point is centered around the pull yourself up by the boot straps mentality that people expect kids who come from poorer and underfunded education systems to have. Race comes up because more minorities tend to be in these systems and in turn are unprepared for college, jobs, military etc. I think we need to improve our entire education system regardless of race but it does impact minority population more in general.

It is strange to me that people don't really look at what I'm saying but get upset about previous arguments they have heard or perceived laziness of other people. I never say people shouldn't be responsible for themselves or blame other people. But fixing problems and institutional inequities would lead to a better society. While I have said that there are inequities in certain areas that were created based on race that need to be looked at, my solutions are generally simple and blameless. The people around me tend to fixated about race, sharecropping, HBCUs etc.

I don't think these points are controversial nor does it conflict with the idea of self determination.

Entrepreneurship:
It is more difficult for qualified minorities to get business loans and they tend to get less than their equally qualified white counterparts. I hope we can look at changing that.

Minorities and women tend to get paid less for the same work than thier Caucasian male counterparts. I think that should change.

Improving resources in poorer school districts which disproportionately impact minorities.

Minorities tend to be charged more and sentenced longer for similar minor drug offenses. I think that should change. I think we should work harder to keep all people out of prison for minor crimes.

Minorities tend to see less value and equity in thier homes and neighborhoods to comparable white neighborhoods. Let's fix that.

This all falls in the realm of promoting family, education, and entrepreneurship and doesn't blame anyone for anything. There are other things but this is my start.

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Two of my kids graduated in classes that were 90% black and less than 5% white. I can assure you that the resources available to that school were no different than the mostly white schools they attended previously. You're probably my favorite poster on this board (sick of the Jalen hating inbreds), but you're dead wrong on this. 

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I disagree. I am sure that was the case for you, but one anecdotal example is not the rule. There are rich minority education systems and poor white districts, but it tends to be more the other way round. I have been in public, private, religious and boarding schools all over this country. There is a great difference when money is there. Alabama is on average under resourced cause we have a negative view on education. Here are articles on the inequity issue. One current LINK
And and one older LINK

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We all want to make schools better, but throwing money isn't always the answer. Tarrant City Schools and Trussville City Schools spend the same amount per student. They are ten miles apart, but one is top 5 in the state, and one is among the worst. The common thread among bad schools is bad parents, regardless of race. If you are the child of a teenager, or the child of a single mother with no father present, your chance of success is almost zero, regardless of the amount of money thrown at you. Simply because your parents place no value on education. 

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I don't disagree with you. Money is not always the solution, but in most situations it helps. And resourcing and staffing are the bigger help. Many parents want to be there but are working several jobs, the kids are working many times. I still don't understand why we should hang the kid's education out to dry for the sins of thier parents. That sounds like indentured servitude to me. We can and should help with education. In the worst case scenrios there are people actively working against kids positive future ambitions. Why would we just say, sorry kid you got a bad situation.

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If you ever want to change disparity in educational outcomes between wealthy and poor, the best solution is to examine why those people are in poverty to begin with. As unpopular as it is to say, it is almost ALWAYS because of poor choices. Not always, but almost always. 

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Poor choices of parents is a part of it yes but that isn't the kid's fault. Why are we so quick to leave the children behind because of it? Why should a kid have out of date text books, or no school lunch, or have to drop out of school because of their parents? Children don't have much say in regards to their educational circumstances and that is one of the largest determiners of their future circumstances.

When we don't pay attention on the front end we pay more in social services, crime, and incarceration on the back. It also leads to weaker families and communities.

Thanks for calling me one of your favorite posters, it is considered a great compliment and is much appreciated

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I agree with you, Evolved Simian. Strong communities have strong schools. True story. The first year I taught school I was teaching in an inner city middle school. Of all the classes I taught, I taught 72 students. When we had open house only parents of 3 of my students showed up. Man, let me tell y'all I was blown away. Never in my life had I encountered people regardless of race who didn't care about an education; who didn't want better for their kids. I spoke to my aunt about this who is a retired teacher who taught in this same community. My aunt told me the parents don't care about an education and their kids don't either. It was so bad at this school the principal lived in this community too and some of the students broke in her house and stole stuff from her! You could place these kids in a sparkling new school with all the guidance counselors you want and it wouldn't make much of a difference. 

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It is true that this exist but I don't see this as the norm. There are many places where people do care and are underresourced. I feel as though you characterized the larger black community this way and my experience is it is not true. Is that how you view it or am I missing something. You will find this in many rural white areas.

I get it, some parents are terrible. This doesn't mean that children don't have value and shouldn't be invested in by our society. Especially if you are concerned about the worse issues we face at the community level.

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Carlton

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You were able to do what I did not have the patience for. Good work.

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I get it, some parents are terrible. This doesn't mean that children don't have value and shouldn't be invested in by our society. Especially if you are concerned about the worse issues we face at the community level.

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The children absolutely have value, but without support of the parents, they have almost zero hope of ever becoming anything other than what their parents are.

The saddest day in my recent memory is when my SIL's 10yo son told me that the happiest days in his life were the 1st and 20th of every month, because that's when they had money for food. That is all he can ever aspire to. His mother pulled him out of school last year, and the older kids several years ago. Family members have tried to teach him the value of working for money and explain to him how important education is, but, even at 10, it is already too late.

In a family full of able bodied people, no one has worked since the first checks started coming in more than a dozen years ago. I fully expect that the older kids will be pregnant before they are 18. There is absolutely nothing you, or I, or any amount of school employees or money can ever do to fix them now. Their parents are poison.

Even if the kids were in schools, there is zero chance that they would ever be anything other than what their parents have taught them to become.

I realize that's anecdotal, but the point is this - unless you can somehow win the parents, Carlton, I'm afraid your very well intentioned ideas will be for naught. It has to start with the families. Working to change the kids without the appropriate structure at home is almost never successful.

More power to him. I hope he understands why he's taking a knee, though, and his activism goes beyond that simple act.