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re: The NCAA lost in the highest court in the land

Posted on 12/7/22 at 6:54 am to
Posted by jonnyanony
Member since Nov 2020
9912 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 6:54 am to
quote:

These kids are just entitled and spoiled.



I doubt you'd give up your labor for free while the people putting you there make billions and saddle you with draconian laws.

The system wasn't "fine" the way it was, we were just the beneficiaries of a bad system.

It's now better for the athlete than it was and worse for the fan.

The fix is simple: the NFL starts a development league. Buy since that won't happen, colleges should pay players and make them sign a 3-year contract with two possible extensions.
Posted by Leto II
Arrakis
Member since Dec 2018
21238 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 6:57 am to
quote:

These kids are just entitled and spoiled.


You clearly have no idea what it's like to be a D1 athlete.
Posted by SneezyBeltranIsHere
Member since Jul 2021
2438 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 6:58 am to
quote:

CFB was just fine how it used to be with no NIL


I am amazed by how many people on this board hate the free market and capitalism. You guys who hate NIL need to move with Hillary, Pelosi and AOC to North Korea. There, you guys can set up a college football league where no capitalism is involved and everyone has the same, regardless of their talents or contributions.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25569 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 6:59 am to
quote:


The fix is simple: the NFL starts a development league. Buy since that won't happen, colleges should pay players and make them sign a 3-year contract with two possible extensions.

Because the NFL won't pay players, colleges should?
Lol

Contracts are worse than the previous system (labor laws will allow Stetson Bennett to play at uga until he is 35).

The only fix needed is a mandatory redshirt to protect the student athlete's eligibility after a transfer.
Posted by ForeverEllisHugh
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2016
14779 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:05 am to
Capitalism doesn’t need to be involved in every aspect of society. Sometimes things are better left untouched by it.

These guys got free college educations, room and board, food, tutoring, training, and the chance to go pro. That was more than enough compensation.

Also, being able to walk away from your team and play for another immediately just enables and encourages self-centered instant gratification behavior.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
54621 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:05 am to
quote:

These kids are just entitled and spoiled.


This

The NCAA got greedy but a degree can not be sliced off to street agents, fat little girlfriends, cling ons, lawyers, sports agents, and other assorted folks in that world. The only reason this went forward was all the folks whispering in teenagers ears for their cut, Deserved or not.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41648 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:06 am to
quote:

I am amazed by how many people on this board hate the free market and capitalism. You guys who hate NIL need to move with Hillary, Pelosi and AOC to North Korea. There, you guys can set up a college football league where no capitalism is involved and everyone has the same, regardless of their talents or contributions
I’m a supporter of Capitalism. I’m against treating college athletics like they are no different than professional sports.
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
37461 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:13 am to
quote:

The restriction is immediate playing time. If I am a regular student at UGA and transfer to Georgia Tech, why should a regular student feel any privilege to be on the tech football team playing on Saturdays?


If you’re on scholarship because you’re a theoretical physics savant and decide to transfer from GT to Harvard, why should you be forced to not participate in the research of theoretical physics for a year?
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
37461 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:14 am to
quote:

That is an indentured servitude and equally as bad as slavery.


No, they are being handsomely rewarded with scholarships, room and board, health care, clothing, and meals. The sum total is more than likely topping $100,000 a year.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25569 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:17 am to
quote:

If you’re on scholarship because you’re a theoretical physics savant and decide to transfer from GT to Harvard, why should you be forced to not participate in the research of theoretical physics for a year?

A redshirt is still on the team, using team resources, using a team scholarship, playing on the practice field, studying with the team in the film room. The redshirt is on the sidelines at home games and can even be included as one of the 70 on road games.

If I am a physics savant at MIT, all my work at MIT is owned by MIT. Even if I personally transfer to Stanford.

Are you missing the fact that the redshirt allows the football player to still receive NIL and be a football player?
Or are you looking for precedent in other areas (such as the University rights for studies inside their facilities with their resources)?
Posted by multicampus
Member since Oct 2021
1191 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:19 am to
As for coaches honoring contracts: Buyout clauses are part of the contract. If a coach pays the buyout, they honored the contract.

This is America. It was downright un-American to tell a college student that they couldn't make money doing commercials, etc.

Vote with your remote control and your wallet if you don't like it. I have not watched an NFL game since the 2015 season.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25569 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:20 am to
quote:


No, they are being handsomely rewarded with scholarships, room and board, health care, clothing, and meals. The sum total is more than likely topping $100,000 a year

Indentured servitude is selling your labor with strict, prohibitive restrictions.

I don't disagree with your sentiment.
But forcing a student athlete to remain at the school when his coach leaves, grandfather is ill, has realized he made a life changing mistake... is not good for the university or athlete.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
54621 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:20 am to
Pure capitalism is the Robber Barron of the 1800's. Free markets are the better view, but markets are not truly free. Over time competitive markets evolve to oligopolies and monopolies (Auto's and Oil are perfect examples).

If you want true free markets you probably want Game Theory with some governmental influence to keep markets truly fair for the actual citizens. Unfortunately Public Choice Theory is what the USA currently operates under where a small minority uses money and power (most visibly political power) to stop value added being passed on to the actual citizens of this country.

The best system would be Humnaistic Capitalism but US and foreign corporations will not let this happen. Citizen United may have been the worst case in the history of the SCOTUS but because it was boring it did not inflame the masses like civil rights or abortions. In one case it allowed corporations control over the ballot box and a corporation can not physically enter one and cast a vote.

Think about that.
Posted by biclops
Member since Oct 2011
6149 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:23 am to
quote:

CFB fans are just entitled and spoiled.


This is true. We're used to something great that we love and lash out at anything that threatens it, without stopping to think "hey, maybe this is the right thing to do". I'm as guilty of it as anybody.
This post was edited on 12/7/22 at 7:25 am
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
54621 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:30 am to
quote:

NCAA time has passed because they just suck at everything.


NCAA was formed when we were going though a similar period, we have just returned to where we were a century ago and the POTUS and Congress had to get involved and lead to the formation of the NCAA. (Lots of boring reading in the special archives as Dr Dudley of Vanderbilt was involved in the formation of the NCAA.

Like so many things the NCAA got mutated on its own ego and power (the dictatorship of Walter Beyers in the 50's, 60's, and 70's is where most of this all festered. Oklahoma + Georgia, beginning of ESPN, free agency, and media $$$$ just made it worse till the imbalance was so bad but the NCAA would not concede income in their own pockets to lessen the strain.

If history repeats (and it usually does) in a decade or so the POTUS and Congress will step in again and you will have a "new" NCAA that will be similar to the original NCAA when it was formed roughly a century ago.
Posted by InkStainedWretch
Member since Dec 2018
1748 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:48 am to
Congress isn't going to do one thing to fix any of this. There is no one, regardless of party or philosophic label, who's gonna go there (that was signaled so loud in various hearings on stuff, by both D's and R's, that everybody buried in Elmwood Cemetery should've heard it), no matter how loud fans who want it to be the 1970s again holler on message boards. We either move forward and figure it out by the current rules, or the thing implodes.
This post was edited on 12/7/22 at 7:49 am
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
37461 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:49 am to
quote:

A redshirt is still on the team, using team resources, using a team scholarship, playing on the practice field, studying with the team in the film room. The redshirt is on the sidelines at home games and can even be included as one of the 70 on road games. If I am a physics savant at MIT, all my work at MIT is owned by MIT. Even if I personally transfer to Stanford. Are you missing the fact that the redshirt allows the football player to still receive NIL and be a football player? Or are you looking for precedent in other areas (such as the University rights for studies inside their facilities with their resources)?


But you are prohibited from participating in the actual competition. That would be like saying the theoretical physicist student could not present new research for an entire year at a conference, publish new research, or apply for new patents because it competes with his old school.
This post was edited on 12/7/22 at 7:54 am
Posted by JKChesterton
Member since Dec 2012
4011 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:49 am to
quote:

Government ruins everything it touches - this was gross encroachment. CFB was just fine how it used to be with no NIL or immediate transfers.

These kids are just entitled and spoiled.


SCOTUS 9-0 ruled this way, 6 of the Justices that ruled on the NIL case were appointed by GOP Presidents (Bush 1 Thomas, Bush 2 Alito and Roberts Bush 2), Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett Trump). For the DEMS it was Kagan and Sotomayor Obama) and Breyer (Clinton).

So all of the hard core Trump Supporters and/or Republicans/Conservatives (I put myself in more of the Reagan, Bob Dole former Kansas Senator type Conservative) or the more Bush type Republicans have to I think agree they applied basic free market principles and compensation for work/labor principles here in the Alston case.

The 3 DEM appointed Justices all agreed with Kavanaugh's opinion because none of them wrote their own concurrent opinion. He wrote his and it was Gorsuch won wrote the unanimous opinion. Both of those guys were Trump appointees (and I think they were both good picks for the record, very Reaganite type picks in terms of Judicial philosophy).

Sorry to read into your post but when you say "government ruins everything" this usually is a political statement pointing fingers at the DEMS/Left, who I agree often do use Government too much.

In this case, it was allowing 18 to 22 year olds be compensated for their work. Everybody else is making millions and millions, Schools, Coaches, businesses who cater to 100K fans who come in to Baton Rouge, Athens, Tuscaloosa, College Station, Knoxville, etc, etc



This post was edited on 12/7/22 at 7:51 am
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
54621 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:51 am to
quote:

CFB fans are just entitled and spoiled


I would argue the exact opposite. If anybody had a lawsuit it seems the fans should be first in line.

So much changed with the combination of Regan spending money to get us out of the oil shocks of the 70's and "Wall Streets" mantra of "Greed is Good" actually reflecting a fundamental change in how Wall Street operated. Say in 1980's the NCAA allotted 3,000 seats to each school in the Final Four for a venue with 48K seats (roughly 25% of the tickets) they now allot 300 seats in a venue that seats 70K to 80K.

It is like the line in Casino where the narrator is talking about the mob getting knocked out of Vegas and the corporations moving in. Both the schools (in an ever escalating desire to spend more money) and the NCAA have been kicking the rank and file fans out and moving the corporations into those seats and 10x cost of what the fans had to pay.

Problem is old folks like me were "promised" our donations would add up so in our later years we (as alumni or general fans) would have access to better seats in our dotage for our long term loyalty. Just the opposite has happened (Vols were the most brazen 20 years or so ago where they sold HUGE blocks of tickets to scalpers and institutional scalpers (like Stub Hub) before selling those same tickets to their small and medium donors and general fans.

if an AD making 125K is replaced by an AD making 1.25 million show me any other place where this happens in middle America. All those bloated athletic departments (and large staffs) have not translated to the actual fans. In 1980 say an SEC "donor fund" focused on say 3K to 5K donors. Now the staffs are double or triple and they focus on only 30 to 50 donors and some schools are really just focusing on 3 to 5 "super donors"

Fans have been the most disenfranchised since the 1980's and why they are finding impossible to entice the under 30 set. Those are the fans of the future and they will not be there in the future and college sports as we know it will be dead and buried.
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90537 posts
Posted on 12/7/22 at 7:52 am to
They need to allow NIL deals to be contractual like coaching contracts. I.E you stay at the program 3 years and if you transfer to another program you gotta pay back some money.
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