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re: Protests blowing up in Downtown Birmingham

Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:41 pm to
Posted by RollTide4Ever
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
18324 posts
Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:41 pm to
Tom Woods Interview Eric July on Riots

At one point, Tom called the looters "The Committee to Re-elect Donald Trump."
Posted by Evolved Simian
Bushwood Country Club
Member since Sep 2010
20631 posts
Posted on 6/3/20 at 10:59 pm to
quote:

Us white folk are going to have to admit we have to do things like fund predominantly black schools better.


We already do. With the exception of a small number of systems in Alabama where parents care and vote for extra taxes, the poorest systems in the state receive the most funding. 7 of the 10 highest funded systems (on a per student basis) are poor predominantly black (or almost entirely black) systems.

For example, the 97% black Anniston system receives the 7th most funding in the state. The overwhelmingly white Trussville system ranks 80th in funding, even with their extra local allocations.

It's fallacious to think that even more money can make bad school systems better at this point. There has to be a change at home first. Education is NOT frequently a valued commodity in most poor communities, but that's even more true in poor black communities.

BTW - if anyone is curious, the worst funded system in the entire state is the Autauga County system. They have almost no local funding (no idea why they don't support their schools more), and because most of the population is suburban MGM middle class they aren't poor enough to get the big state and federal dollars that other systems in that part of the state do like Greene, Sumter, Lowndes and Macon counties. Greene county gets $11,878 per student (3rd in the state) Autauga County gets $7,615 {138th and dead last).
This post was edited on 6/3/20 at 11:39 pm
Posted by RollTide4Ever
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
18324 posts
Posted on 6/3/20 at 11:57 pm to
The same pathologies that afflict the so-called ghetto was common in South Boston (before gentrification). England's lowest achievers are frequently white, many who share the same issues as poor AAs in this country.
Posted by Evolved Simian
Bushwood Country Club
Member since Sep 2010
20631 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 2:25 am to
quote:

Maybe bamameister will acknowledge those aren't four white guys now.


Well, he was 50% right.
Posted by Evolved Simian
Bushwood Country Club
Member since Sep 2010
20631 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 2:27 am to
quote:

. If just one of them had spoken the frick up we wouldn't be in this situation. How hard would it have been to say to let him up?



Both Keung and Lane said that, I believe. Chauvin said no.
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15715 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 6:27 am to
quote:

We already do. With the exception of a small number of systems in Alabama where parents care and vote for extra taxes, the poorest systems in the state receive the most funding. 7 of the 10 highest funded systems (on a per student basis) are poor predominantly black (or almost entirely black) systems.

For example, the 97% black Anniston system receives the 7th most funding in the state. The overwhelmingly white Trussville system ranks 80th in funding, even with their extra local allocations.

It's fallacious to think that even more money can make bad school systems better at this point. There has to be a change at home first. Education is NOT frequently a valued commodity in most poor communities, but that's even more true in poor black communities.

BTW - if anyone is curious, the worst funded system in the entire state is the Autauga County system. They have almost no local funding (no idea why they don't support their schools more), and because most of the population is suburban MGM middle class they aren't poor enough to get the big state and federal dollars that other systems in that part of the state do like Greene, Sumter, Lowndes and Macon counties. Greene county gets $11,878 per student (3rd in the state) Autauga County gets $7,615 {138th and dead last).


I don't disagree with any of this, I used funding because there are lots of rural predominately black counties were funding is a real problem simply because even when you give a pretty high amount per student, the low number of students makes it challenging or impossible to fund anything other than the basics.

Money certainly won't solve all the problems but you've got to reach those kids because for the most part you're not changing the parents at home. Once we (all of us) reach adulthood we are who we are and few of us make drastic course corrections. Until you reach the kids, you're just going to see the same thing generation after generation.

Like I said, it's an incredibly challenging and complex problem but it's also the real cause of the situation we're facing right now.
Posted by Robot Santa
Member since Oct 2009
44405 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 6:28 am to
I suspect the other 3 are going to get sweet plea deals, maybe to something relatively benign or even a misdemeanor, in exchange for testifying against Chauvin. Part of me honestly feels kind of bad for them. Especially in light of the fact that two of them said something to Chauvin about getting off of Floyd or rolling him onto his side multiple times but were rebuked or ignored each time. Lane was only on like his 3rd career shift and said something to Chauvin twice, and even pointed out exactly what was likely happening to Floyd. Everyone likes to think that they'd have just gone and physically restrained Chauvin at that point, but that simply isn't how the human brain tends to work.
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 7:24 am to
quote:

Everyone likes to think that they'd have just gone and physically restrained Chauvin at that point, but that simply isn't how the human brain tends to work.

There is no valid excuse for those three not attempting to physically restrain Chauvin.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
50786 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 7:31 am to
quote:

There is no valid excuse for those three not attempting to physically restrain Chauvin


Yes there is. They would have been reprimanded, and likely have lost their jobs.
Posted by 14&Counting
Eugene, OR
Member since Jul 2012
37711 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:01 am to
quote:

Yes there is. They would have been reprimanded, and likely have lost their jobs.





No they wouldn't have
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:03 am to
quote:

Yes there is. They would have been reprimanded, and likely have lost their jobs.

Doubtful and not a good excuse.
This post was edited on 6/4/20 at 8:05 am
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
11841 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:08 am to
quote:


We already do. With the exception of a small number of systems in Alabama where parents care and vote for extra taxes, the poorest systems in the state receive the most funding. 7 of the 10 highest funded systems (on a per student basis) are poor predominantly black (or almost entirely black) systems.

For example, the 97% black Anniston system receives the 7th most funding in the state. The overwhelmingly white Trussville system ranks 80th in funding, even with their extra local allocations.

It's fallacious to think that even more money can make bad school systems better at this point. There has to be a change at home first. Education is NOT frequently a valued commodity in most poor communities, but that's even more true in poor black communities.

BTW - if anyone is curious, the worst funded system in the entire state is the Autauga County system. They have almost no local funding (no idea why they don't support their schools more), and because most of the population is suburban MGM middle class they aren't poor enough to get the big state and federal dollars that other systems in that part of the state do like Greene, Sumter, Lowndes and Macon counties. Greene county gets $11,878 per student (3rd in the state) Autauga County gets $7,615 {138th and dead last).



Same in NC.

The issue I have seen is how schools are funded. The best schools(ranked) in NC for all categories are the ones that are funded mostly at the local level through local taxes and whatnot. The worst ranked schools are those that receive the most money from the state and/or federal. The issue is at the local level funding they(Board and parents) can determine where to better allocate funds as needed for the upcoming year. If coming from the state or federal they are told.

Example local funding:

Schools need more teachers and more assistants over painting or other property maintenance for the upcoming year. That will happen as they control the funds.

Example state funding:

Same scenario but the state will allocate funds for specific accounts. They are not allowed to pull from one account to use on the other. The state does this for each system no matter what their actual needs are. They can try once the budget is voted on by the state and allocated but with red tape and other issues almost impossible. So schools who receive the most funding from outside the area are never really able to address the biggest or immediate needs.

This is an issue across the country. As many states have used funding guidelines from the Dept of Education since its inception in 1980 which has also seen a decrease in our educational product as a whole compared to other 1st world countries. The system is setup for failure when we have large entities outside of the area micromanaging our local education system. As you mentioned in the local communities where the parents get involved and push on how local taxes are allocated and used the school system seems to succeed at a far greater rate. Once it becomes a commodity in lo the local community and that community takes ownership the students will fare greater as an end result.
This post was edited on 6/4/20 at 8:11 am
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
50786 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:27 am to
quote:

Doubtful and not a good excuse


Nope, 100% true and it isn't an excuse. Just another thing police unions have gotten us. If they had interfered, nothing would have happened to this officer and they likely would have all gotten reprimands.
Posted by TideSaint
Hill Country
Member since Sep 2008
75885 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:28 am to
quote:

BTW - if anyone is curious, the worst funded system in the entire state is the Autauga County system. They have almost no local funding (no idea why they don't support their schools more), and because most of the population is suburban MGM middle class they aren't poor enough to get the big state and federal dollars that other systems in that part of the state do like Greene, Sumter, Lowndes and Macon counties. Greene county gets $11,878 per student (3rd in the state) Autauga County gets $7,615 {138th and dead last).



I have three kids in the Autauga County school system.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
50786 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:30 am to
quote:

The issue I have seen is how schools are funded. The best schools(ranked) in NC for all categories are the ones that are funded mostly at the local level through local taxes and whatnot.


Absolutely correct. You should remember this the next time someone points out "per student funding rankings" by state because those slanted rankings average out all funding, including local funding. Alabama, as a state, funds more per student than most states but the local municipalities that do not pony up brings the ranking down. Rankings based solely on state allocations are basically scrubbed from the internet, but you can find them if you try hard enough.
Posted by mre
Birmingham
Member since Feb 2009
3090 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:30 am to
quote:

I suspect the other 3 are going to get sweet plea deals, maybe to something relatively benign or even a misdemeanor, in exchange for testifying against Chauvin.

What would their testimony add to that video that would help convict Chauvin? He's been charged with felony murder which is described in Minnesota as an "unintentional murder." The AD doesn't need their testimony to ferret out whether his actions were premeditated (which, in MN, would be required for Murder 1) or even intentional (which would otherwise be required for a murder 2 charge in MN).

quote:

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting;

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

They may be able to plead to lesser offenses, but it won't be for their testimony.
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:33 am to
quote:

Nope, 100% true and it isn't an excuse. Just another thing police unions have gotten us. If they had interfered, nothing would have happened to this officer and they likely would have all gotten reprimands.

You clearly said reprimands and loss of their jobs would occur and are a valid excuse for those 3 cops to not physically stop another cop from committing a murder. Now you blame their cowardice on their union. Come on man!
This post was edited on 6/4/20 at 10:33 am
Posted by Robot Santa
Member since Oct 2009
44405 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:42 am to
quote:


There is no valid excuse for those three not attempting to physically restrain Chauvin.



Not talking about excuses or justification. There has been a lot of research on the psychological effects authority figures have over people, and it may surprise you to learn that it is incredibly difficult for the vast majority of people to stand up to a person with authority over them. Chauvin had as much experience as the rest of that group combined. There was never much of a chance that any of them would go as far as tackling him and basically putting him under arrest for not doing what they thought he should be doing. All the people sitting behind their computers and talking like they'd have been Billy Badass in that situation and stepped in to save the day are full of shite.
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:49 am to
All four of those "full of shite" ex-cops should be imprisoned for Floyd's murder.
This post was edited on 6/4/20 at 10:34 am
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15715 posts
Posted on 6/4/20 at 8:53 am to
quote:

What would their testimony add to that video that would help convict Chauvin? He's been charged with felony murder which is described in Minnesota as an "unintentional murder.


They have to prove another crime. Look at the section of code you quoted:

quote:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting;


Now, tell me using just the video what other felony criminal offense he was committing. Assault doesn't work, because that's the same act that killed him (if you shoot someone and they die you don't get convicted of both assault and murder, just the worse of the two). You've got to prove a second felony crime.

If he doesn't plead (I bet he does), his defense is going to be something along the lines of he was making a lawful arrest, felt as if Mr. Floyd was still resisting, and never realized he was in real trouble. Their testimony may be needed to show that he was told Mr. Floyd was in trouble and he needed to get off him. I'm not going to dig into Minnesota case law, but that's probably going to be enough to meet the additional felony bar.

Knowing he caused Mr. Floyd's death isn't enough, you've got to check all the boxes of the statute. Don't forget the officer that shot Mr. Castile was acquitted by a jury that had black members. The jurors said afterwards that they felt the state didn't meet the legal burden. If their testimony can help ensure you convict the guy directly responsible for the death, you use it every single time.
This post was edited on 6/4/20 at 8:54 am
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