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Is Michigan in serious trouble?
Posted on 10/27/23 at 11:43 am
Posted on 10/27/23 at 11:43 am
It's such a really weird situation with a really weird guy (Stalions) who sounds like he took obsession to a whole new level. The media is going nuts but on the other hand, Michigan is a media darling, so I'm not sure what, if anything the NCAA does here.
I'd love to know how Stalions was affording to go to all these games and who was funding all this? Michigan athletics? Michigan boosters? Jim Harbaugh?
My guess is Michigan and Jim Harbaugh will deny any knowledge, claim to not know who he is (even though he's clearly wandering around the Michigan sidelines during games) and ban him effectively immediately from even being in the stadium or having any connection to Michigan athletics.
All sins will be forgiven and Michigan walks away with zero penalties.
I'd love to know how Stalions was affording to go to all these games and who was funding all this? Michigan athletics? Michigan boosters? Jim Harbaugh?
My guess is Michigan and Jim Harbaugh will deny any knowledge, claim to not know who he is (even though he's clearly wandering around the Michigan sidelines during games) and ban him effectively immediately from even being in the stadium or having any connection to Michigan athletics.
All sins will be forgiven and Michigan walks away with zero penalties.
9
Posted on 10/27/23 at 11:58 am to Amarillo Tide
To me this is lack of institutional control...if that is a thing anymore.
It can't be said " it was a staffer paying recruits while away from campus...we couldn't have possibly known what he was doing".
This is top down institutionally orchestrated activity.
That being said, I first thought of this as the Aunt Becky situation .. Getting her daughters into school .. "seems bad but...I presume anyone that could would" and she got lots of heat for it. So maybe something actually happens
It can't be said " it was a staffer paying recruits while away from campus...we couldn't have possibly known what he was doing".
This is top down institutionally orchestrated activity.
That being said, I first thought of this as the Aunt Becky situation .. Getting her daughters into school .. "seems bad but...I presume anyone that could would" and she got lots of heat for it. So maybe something actually happens
Posted on 10/27/23 at 12:07 pm to Amarillo Tide
Yes. Stalions was spending $15k a year on tickets and travel despite a $55k salary? Obsessed or not, there's no way he afforded all that on his own unless he's single and living in a van down by the river. That's like 1/3 of his take home pay. And then of course there are all the pictures of him standing next to Michigan's OC and DC depending on who had the ball. I don't know if I'd say they are fricked because it's still the NCAA, but I think they're due for some massive program upheaval one way or another. Harbaugh isn't sticking around for any potential fallout. He'll pull a Pete Carroll and leave Michigan holding the bag so he can go coach the Bears.
Posted on 10/27/23 at 12:20 pm to Robot Santa
Harbaugh is going to the NFL next year, so whatever they're do would have to be fast. There's really no way to do anything this year unless the NCAA fast tracks some stuff.
Posted on 10/27/23 at 12:37 pm to Amarillo Tide
Nothing will happen from this. Clemson did this for years until teams caught on. Too bad Bama didn't figure it out until it was too late m
Posted on 10/27/23 at 1:01 pm to Amarillo Tide
I admit I haven't read the details. Is it a rule that a representative of a school can't film other games, sidelines, whatever?
Posted on 10/27/23 at 1:26 pm to Chad4Bama
Yeah not supposed to record signals apparently, even at a live game
Posted on 10/27/23 at 1:37 pm to Chad4Bama
quote:
I admit I haven't read the details. Is it a rule that a representative of a school can't film other games, sidelines, whatever?
The rule in question prevents anyone from the school and/or staff from scouting an opponent and/or using electronics to record a game. Apparently, this took place in over 30+ games to date maybe more.
He was flying to games or buying tickets for others to attend games in advance of UM playing said team. Supposedly record all the sign and data and created a package to help UM beat opponents by knowing the play calls on both sides of the ball.
If all the information coming out is true it appears that maybe someone inside the organization may have tipped someone off about what was going on. Because the parties investigating have access to hard drives and knew exactly where to look for evidence they are providing.
The interesting thing about the rule that is being violated is the rule was not created due to unethical practices or even cheating as to steal signs for plays but because only a handful of schools had the resources (money/staff) to do so. Smaller schools complained it created an unfair advantage for the schools that could afford to scout opponents, so the NCAA created the rule in 1994 as a cost cutting method to help schools with limited resources.
Posted on 10/27/23 at 1:39 pm to Chad4Bama
quote:
I admit I haven't read the details. Is it a rule that a representative of a school can't film other games, sidelines, whatever?
You're not supposed to record signals and you're not supposed to scout future opponents in person.
Some school should have paid Mark Rober to make a sign stealing app so they could have saved some time. He did it with stealing baseball signals to show how machine learning works.
I can only care so much. You're allowed to steal signals, they just put more effort into it than you're supposed to.
On the bright side, this will speed up the adoption of helmet communication in college like they do in the NFL, so it's going to end up being a good thing!
This post was edited on 10/27/23 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 10/27/23 at 1:46 pm to JIB
Michigan has two or three investigations ongoing and already got hit last year resulting in Harbaugh's suspension to open the season.
I think he's done in Ann Arbor and they likely have to forfeit some games that this guy was confirmed to be filming.
I think he's done in Ann Arbor and they likely have to forfeit some games that this guy was confirmed to be filming.
Posted on 10/27/23 at 4:27 pm to tide06
Does the NCAA even have the ability to do anything anymore? Tennessee was caught cheating as red handed as anyone has ever been and they flipped the bird to the NCAA by not self-imposing a bowl ban, and there was really no fallout from it.
ETA: They really haven't handed out serious sanctions since the 2011 Penn State scandal and those A) did not go nearly far enough given the magnitude of what was revealed and B) were almost all overturned less than two years later.
ETA: They really haven't handed out serious sanctions since the 2011 Penn State scandal and those A) did not go nearly far enough given the magnitude of what was revealed and B) were almost all overturned less than two years later.
This post was edited on 10/27/23 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 10/27/23 at 6:10 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
If all the information coming out is true it appears that maybe someone inside the organization may have tipped someone off about what was going on. Because the parties investigating have access to hard drives and knew exactly where to look for evidence they are providing.
It has been mentioned by several sources that there was something more serious going on with the university hard drives than sign stealing. Maybe something illegal, such as child pornography, was why the hard drives drew scrutiny. As far as the sign stealing, supposedly Ohio State and several other Big 10 schools reported Michigan to the NCAA. A Tennessee fan accused Michigan of stealing signals from them last year (when it appeared Tennessee might get to the CFP).
Posted on 10/27/23 at 8:11 pm to Tupelo
It would be a real shame if they had to forfeit enough games to drop them to 3rd behind bama and state.
Posted on 10/27/23 at 10:46 pm to Tupelo
quote:
As far as the sign stealing, supposedly Ohio State and several other Big 10 schools reported Michigan to the NCAA.
MOST other Big10 schools provided info/evidence to the NCAA
11 of the 13, according to several articles
Posted on 10/27/23 at 10:52 pm to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
MOST other Big10 schools provided info/evidence to the NCAA
11 of the 13, according to several articles
Well, Harbaugh is such a peach of a guy, he's probably made a lot of friends.
Posted on 10/27/23 at 11:17 pm to Tupelo
Harbaugh will probably be coaching the LA Chargers this time next year.
Michigan finally has a legit NC contender (I guess, they haven't played anyone) and the bottom falls out for their fans. Rough.
Michigan finally has a legit NC contender (I guess, they haven't played anyone) and the bottom falls out for their fans. Rough.
This post was edited on 10/27/23 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 10/27/23 at 11:58 pm to Amarillo Tide
Anytime you hear things like, lower level staffer... That's code for, he's the fall guy and nothing will happen to the big wigs in charge.
Nothing will happen.
Nothing will happen.
Posted on 10/28/23 at 3:09 am to bamabonners
That’s not how the NCAA rules are written. There’s a direct clause that Harbaugh will be liable unless he can show he has no knowledge, and all of the reporting has essentially shown multiple coaching staff members had access to a sharedrive of videos and signals as well as an approved budget for the operation. Additionally, Stalions was coordinating with Harbaugh and the coordinators during the game using a sign cheat sheet, which is on video multiple times.
He’s dead in the water. Probably looking at 3 years of vacated wins and a major show cause based on this starting in 2021. You don’t mess with Vegas
He’s dead in the water. Probably looking at 3 years of vacated wins and a major show cause based on this starting in 2021. You don’t mess with Vegas
This post was edited on 10/28/23 at 3:11 am
Posted on 10/28/23 at 9:21 am to Amarillo Tide
Lack of institutional control. This will make schools do like the NFL
Posted on 10/28/23 at 9:25 am to Amarillo Tide
Well the drama of “cheating” by buying players is over, I guess the new way to keep our attention on college football is going to be this kind of crap. I don’t think it should be illegal, maybe it’s bad sportsmanship but I know we demand these coaches to do everything possible to win and to me it looks like that’s what happened at Michigan.
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