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re: Anonymous SEC coaches say that we're still going to suck
Posted on 8/5/19 at 10:03 pm to cubsfan5150
Posted on 8/5/19 at 10:03 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
"Everyone respects Chad as an offensive mind, but fixing this roster is a huge job."
Read: Chad is a good offensive coordinator but this job is over his head.
1
Posted on 8/5/19 at 10:14 pm to Stonehog
Translation: bert was really really bad at recruiting at an sec level it will take time no matter who it is
Posted on 8/5/19 at 10:32 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
bert was really really bad at recruiting at an sec level
So is Chad. His best class was 10th in the league. Current class is 12th and last in the West.
This post was edited on 8/5/19 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 8/5/19 at 10:44 pm to Stonehog
Stoney back on the haterade again I see.
As for the true quality of the last and current recruiting class. No way to know at this point. We know nothing about player development nor the true talent they have and how they will use that talent. Remember a fairly recent 5× guy in the secondary that never was anything but average. Danny Fords classes were always ranked low, but damn if Nutt didn't have a chance to get to the biggest stage with them. Fat boys results certainly didn't match the recruiting rankings. The fact that Arkansas signed more 4× guys than ever before in one class gives some hope, but means nothing either way at this point. But I'm sure you will continue to ignore what doesn't fit your agenda.
Personally, I'll wait and see before gathering my pitchfork and light my torch.
As for the true quality of the last and current recruiting class. No way to know at this point. We know nothing about player development nor the true talent they have and how they will use that talent. Remember a fairly recent 5× guy in the secondary that never was anything but average. Danny Fords classes were always ranked low, but damn if Nutt didn't have a chance to get to the biggest stage with them. Fat boys results certainly didn't match the recruiting rankings. The fact that Arkansas signed more 4× guys than ever before in one class gives some hope, but means nothing either way at this point. But I'm sure you will continue to ignore what doesn't fit your agenda.
Personally, I'll wait and see before gathering my pitchfork and light my torch.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 4:51 am to BadPiggy
Stonehog lays it on a little thick and (passive)aggressively a lot of the time, but he's not really saying anything that isn't true.
I'm getting really fricking sick of seeing this stupid shite, too. Last year he made a splash. I think we signed more 4* than we ever have. But the SEC being what it is, we still only finished the year at #23 on 24/7 and securely in the bottom half of the conference. Hey, I get it. He's not a miracle worker, and he deserves time to see it through. But well over half of this class is already filled and we're sitting at #30 with only three 4* - one of them being the head coach's son, for God's sake.
I get that he's addressing needs and working with what he has, but he's really not tearing up the recruiting trail like everyone wants to say he is. I mean, the numbers are right there in front of us. We said the exact same thing about Bert almost his entire tenure here. There isn't any momentum to keep. Unless we somehow materialize another seven+ 4* commitments in a row, this class is finishing in the 30's easily.
We can be optimistic and also realistic. Chad has a lot to prove, and outside of a successful stint as OC at Clemson, he's proven exactly none of it. The dude was a risky as frick hire, and we're more than likely going to be set back because of it.
quote:
"Right now the job is to keep momentum in recruiting and build on that. It can turn quick if they recruit like they have been, because they're out selling immediate playing time in a high-scoring system in the SEC, and kids are noticing."
I'm getting really fricking sick of seeing this stupid shite, too. Last year he made a splash. I think we signed more 4* than we ever have. But the SEC being what it is, we still only finished the year at #23 on 24/7 and securely in the bottom half of the conference. Hey, I get it. He's not a miracle worker, and he deserves time to see it through. But well over half of this class is already filled and we're sitting at #30 with only three 4* - one of them being the head coach's son, for God's sake.
I get that he's addressing needs and working with what he has, but he's really not tearing up the recruiting trail like everyone wants to say he is. I mean, the numbers are right there in front of us. We said the exact same thing about Bert almost his entire tenure here. There isn't any momentum to keep. Unless we somehow materialize another seven+ 4* commitments in a row, this class is finishing in the 30's easily.
We can be optimistic and also realistic. Chad has a lot to prove, and outside of a successful stint as OC at Clemson, he's proven exactly none of it. The dude was a risky as frick hire, and we're more than likely going to be set back because of it.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 6:29 am to VagueMessage
The part you quoted is another sec coach saying it can turn quick in a good way because he believes we’ve been recruiting well under Morris you get that right?
And it wasn’t that risky of a hire. Teams don’t normally take guys from other top tier power 5 programs. The fact that we got petrino from an nfl team and Bret from Wisconsin has some fans living in a weird fantasy world because hiring people like that is extremely rare unless you pull an a&m and throw a shite ton of money at someone. I mean hell when auburn hired Gus the only place he had been a head coach at was a state. Kirby had never been the head dog before Georgia. There’s always gonna be risks when hiring someone but usually you hire from the coordinator ranks or from lower schools most guys are t looking for a lateral move at least if they’re worth a shite. Especially one who was in as bad a shape as us. And it’s not like the other coaches we were on had a more proven track record. It was gonna be the head coach at smu or head coach at Memphis wow big whoop. So stop acting like it was some big risk when hiring mid major coaches is the norm for most big jobs in college football
And it wasn’t that risky of a hire. Teams don’t normally take guys from other top tier power 5 programs. The fact that we got petrino from an nfl team and Bret from Wisconsin has some fans living in a weird fantasy world because hiring people like that is extremely rare unless you pull an a&m and throw a shite ton of money at someone. I mean hell when auburn hired Gus the only place he had been a head coach at was a state. Kirby had never been the head dog before Georgia. There’s always gonna be risks when hiring someone but usually you hire from the coordinator ranks or from lower schools most guys are t looking for a lateral move at least if they’re worth a shite. Especially one who was in as bad a shape as us. And it’s not like the other coaches we were on had a more proven track record. It was gonna be the head coach at smu or head coach at Memphis wow big whoop. So stop acting like it was some big risk when hiring mid major coaches is the norm for most big jobs in college football
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 6:35 am
Posted on 8/6/19 at 6:57 am to VagueMessage
To be fair, many of last years 4× came late in the process, so there is that, but as I indicated, recruiting rankings mean little at this point. In all classes everywhere,any will be better than their individual ranking and many worse, and some will be exactly where they are ranked. It's simply nothing but a hope both ways at this point.
Last season was always going to be a disaster no matter the coach. Probable worse due to change in philosophy and player attitude issues, but it was going to be bad regardless.
There is simply no reason to be on the coolaid or haterade at this point.
Last season was always going to be a disaster no matter the coach. Probable worse due to change in philosophy and player attitude issues, but it was going to be bad regardless.
There is simply no reason to be on the coolaid or haterade at this point.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 7:10 am to VagueMessage
quote:6th of August is a little early to be melting over a recruiting class.
But well over half of this class is already filled and we're sitting at #30 with only three 4* - one of them being the head coach's son, for God's sake.
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 7:12 am
Posted on 8/6/19 at 7:12 am to Stonehog
quote:
So is Chad. His best class was 10th in the league. Current class is 12th and last in the West.
Recruiting these days is just as much on the structure around the program as it is the coaches and personnel within it, actually more so.
Same story around here as it is at winning programs.
The difference is in the commitment to winning at the money level.
Naive to believe otherwise, and naive to point at Morris as part of the underlying lack of success.
I'm all for increased investment in the baseball program at this point... the better booster bureau is seemingly content with being a cellar dweller in football while cashing SEC checks.
Otherwise why hire Jeff Long who clearly didn't give a shite about winning anything other than notoriety for himself?
If you continue to point at coaches as 'the reason' Arkansas football isn't successful, you continue to miss the point.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 7:20 am to Beached Tusky
I'm more shocked we have fans that will actually complain about a top 25 class after a 2 win season. That just doesn't happen. How can you complain about that? The amount of negative recruiting that was available to other coaches about us last year was unlimited. We should be throwing Chad a fricking parade for keeping that class together and not allowing that embarrassing season to domino effect into recruiting, but nah we have people on here bitching because we aren't recruiting on Georgia's level coming off 2-10 in his first full recruiting year. Makes zero sense.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 8:06 am to VagueMessage
quote:
I'm getting really fricking sick of seeing this stupid shite, too. Last year he made a splash. I think we signed more 4* than we ever have. But the SEC being what it is, we still only finished the year at #23 on 24/7 and securely in the bottom half of the conference. Hey, I get it. He's not a miracle worker, and he deserves time to see it through. But well over half of this class is already filled and we're sitting at #30 with only three 4* - one of them being the head coach's son, for God's sake.
I get that he's addressing needs and working with what he has, but he's really not tearing up the recruiting trail like everyone wants to say he is. I mean, the numbers are right there in front of us. We said the exact same thing about Bert almost his entire tenure here. There isn't any momentum to keep. Unless we somehow materialize another seven+ 4* commitments in a row, this class is finishing in the 30's easily.
We can be optimistic and also realistic. Chad has a lot to prove, and outside of a successful stint as OC at Clemson, he's proven exactly none of it. The dude was a risky as frick hire, and we're more than likely going to be set back because of it.
I'm not sure if Morris is going to work out or not but frick you guys are so fricking annoying bitching about him, like you want him to fail. The fact he has recruited as well as he has coming off a 2-10 season is amazing. We should be ranked in the 50s, so how about yall quit with the negative shite and support our coach.
Now if we go 2-10 again I'll be right there with yall but frick, give the man a chance.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 8:23 am to Muleriderhog
Eh, that's just how it is. We could go out and win 8 games this year and a certain contingency of the posters would come back and say "damn, we fired Nutt for winning 8 games and now we're out there celebrating it".
Posted on 8/6/19 at 9:33 am to Beached Tusky
quote:
If you continue to point at coaches as 'the reason' Arkansas football isn't successful, you continue to miss the point.
It took being a fan for several decades before I finally admitted it to myself, but we are always going to be working from behind in trying to hang with the likes of Bama, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M and even having to work hard to keep up with Ole Miss and Miss State.
Folks, this is not a 'poor old Arkansas' post - it's just my realistic perspective of 'how it is'.
Winning consistently in the SEC simply boils down to having equal or better players and equal or better coaching than the other teams.
We don't have, and likely won't have, that on a semi consistent basis.
On players... sure, we'll get some good ones. Even a couple of All-SEC ones with some regularity. But we DO NOT have the recruiting base that we need to have as many as we need. Arkansas just does not produce as many D1 players as we need to build quality depth. Therefore, we have to fight an uphill battle to beat other teams for the better players in their own states. We will get some of those - but not enough consistently.
Coaching - I think most of the top tier coaches would agree that working at Arkansas would have you in a hell of a fight (SEC) with one arm tied behind your back nearly all the time. Money can only buy you so much as far as getting a 'top' coach.
All that said, we can have a competitive team here. And we should be able to beat or at least hang with the majority of (non SEC) teams in the country most years. But consistently winning big in the SEC given the real dynamics of what we have to work with is a tall order.
The best we can hope for, and that we can't always count on, is finding enough diamonds in the rough (e.g. a Trey Flowers) and hoping they develop and good enough coaching to simply 'find a way with what we've got' to occasionally field a serious contender for the conference title.
We should nearly always be in a bowl game, I do expect that. We should always be competitive and put up a good fight and occasionally 'upset' some to the powers that be. That is what I have gradually come to set as my 'bar' for the football program.
The best Jimmmy's and Joes, X's and O's, still win the majority of all games.
That said... Go Hogs!
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 9:40 am
Posted on 8/6/19 at 9:37 am to Muleriderhog
quote:
so how about yall quit with the negative shite and support our coach.
quote:
Muleriderhog
more like dickriderhog
Posted on 8/6/19 at 10:02 am to WonderWartHawg
I think we have a lot of things going for us. We're a solid job. The problem is we're in a conference with some great-elite jobs. I'm still not sold on lumping A&M in with Alabama, LSU and Auburn but they definitely are recruiting on another level now.
In the grand scheme of things, if you aren't one of the top 4 teams in the playoff does it really matter if you have 6, 8 or 9 wins? No one remembers who won the Citrus Bowl 5 years ago, just like they don't remember who won the Liberty or Independence Bowls either. The rest is just for bragging rights and entertainment.
In the grand scheme of things, if you aren't one of the top 4 teams in the playoff does it really matter if you have 6, 8 or 9 wins? No one remembers who won the Citrus Bowl 5 years ago, just like they don't remember who won the Liberty or Independence Bowls either. The rest is just for bragging rights and entertainment.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 10:11 am to VagueMessage
quote:
The dude was a risky as frick hire
Enh. I'd say he was more like the safe hire. We didn't expect a miracle from him but we did want someone to freshen up our ties with Texas High Schools. Well that is one thing he is doing.
A risky hire, a high risk/high reward type hire, would have been going after someone like Mike Leach. Or hiring Jeff Monken from Army to unleash the triple option. It wouldn't work, but at least we'd get to watch Saban have a stroke on the sideline trying to stop the FB dive and midline read.
We hired a coach with Southwest ties who runs a similar offense to what most of the high schools in the state run. That is about the safest hire we could have made. It might work. It might not work. It should at least leave the next coach something to work with and a better foundation.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 5:58 pm to Drewbie
quote:
we have people on here bitching because we aren't recruiting on Georgia's level coming off 2-10 in his first full recruiting year.
No we don't. No one is saying anything like that. We do have people that are saying we aren't going to get out of the SEC cellar with top 30 classes and a coach with one winning season in his career.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 8:55 pm to Stonehog
quote:
No we don't. No one is saying anything like that. We do have people that are saying we aren't going to get out of the SEC cellar with top 30 classes and a coach with one winning season in his career.
Remember this is the class some have claimed the staff was working so hard towards and was going to be Arkansas's best ever.
First class didn't count because he never started evaluating or recruiting FBS prospects until Arkansas hired him and all the elite guys were off the board thanks to the new early signing period.
Last class was didn't have time to build the relationships needed, late start but really made up ground!
This class is suppose to be the class.
Now, why would anyone be concerned with his recruiting up to a few months before the early signing period? Because some claimed the effort of the staff was being spent toward this early signing period.
The hope for Morris was he would pull in quality Texas recruits, so far it has been quantity with the same diamonds Nutt and Petrino could load the roster with, Bert before he ran his fat mouth in front of all the HS coaches down there. Chad is suppose to be the Texas HS Football God looked up to by all these HS coaches and the hope would be a few of the thought highly enough to help recruit player to him vs Texas, Aggy, or OU. Instead the same recruiting battles with Okie state, Baylor, and TTU are taking place for the left overs.
This would be fine if we were in the big 12, but as we have seen in the past there are plenty of diamonds to be found that are solid players, but are missing the one or two skills from being elite which shows up every Saturday on the field during SEC play by these players.
Its frustrating to see Arkansas fall from lower top half recruiting in the SEC under Nutt to bottom tier under Petrino, Bert, and Chad. One of these three is suppose to be a recruiter, one an offensive genius, and the other a CEO type who hires the elite up and coming assistants.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 9:18 pm to DaleDenton
Oh come off it Napoleon and fix yourself a dang quesadilla
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 9:20 pm
Posted on 8/6/19 at 10:42 pm to DaleDenton
Hahahaha... if Arkansas was in the top half of recruiting under Nutt, then there was real shitty recruiting in the conference.
But after the class where he landed Batman Caroll was lazy as shite
Lost nearly all the head to head recruiting battles with non instate kids that teams like Tenner, Bama, Auburn etc wanted. Instead he subsisted mostly on instate talent (some of the best for some time) and a few players plucked from directional schools that managed to produce. Got those producing players from directional schools simply from taking so many of them that some developed.
But by all means Dale, make up BS for your agenda.
But after the class where he landed Batman Caroll was lazy as shite
Lost nearly all the head to head recruiting battles with non instate kids that teams like Tenner, Bama, Auburn etc wanted. Instead he subsisted mostly on instate talent (some of the best for some time) and a few players plucked from directional schools that managed to produce. Got those producing players from directional schools simply from taking so many of them that some developed.
But by all means Dale, make up BS for your agenda.
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