Started By
Message
re: 21-5 or this?
Posted on 5/23/21 at 4:37 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
Posted on 5/23/21 at 4:37 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Clemson was never great until dabo
Except South Carolina has a lot of in state talent, plus their proximity to North Carolina (which produces a good amount of talent) plus Georgia.
2
Posted on 5/23/21 at 5:09 pm to Porcine Human
South Carolina has twice the population base of Arkansas to draw from in state alone.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 6:42 pm to The Sultan of Swine
quote:
As of now we don't have a baseball or basketball natty (since 94), so I'd take 21-5 over that.
Now if we start winning baseball/basketball titles then I might change my mind
So you are saying a New Year's Day bowl game is equal to a NC in Basketball or baseball?
Both Men's Basketball and Baseball have either played for or won a conference title since the last cotton bowl. Just confused by your comparison.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 7:53 pm to DaleDenton
7 or 9 wins consistently would be a lot better than what we've been getting recently
But we do that enough, and our program prestige goes up. Then we get closer to the current blue bloods of college football. Gotta walk before we run, small steps.
But we do that enough, and our program prestige goes up. Then we get closer to the current blue bloods of college football. Gotta walk before we run, small steps.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 9:05 pm to hawgfaninc
If we average 8-4 a bout each year then most hog fans would be satisfied with that.
Arkansas can certainly take it another step further and average at 9-3. But anything higher than that is rare for any college program.
Arkansas can certainly take it another step further and average at 9-3. But anything higher than that is rare for any college program.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 9:46 pm to dchog
quote:
Arkansas can certainly take it another step further and average at 9-3. But anything higher than that is rare for any college program
Based on what? What in the modern era of football makes you think we can take it a step further?
Posted on 5/23/21 at 10:13 pm to dchog
quote:
Arkansas can certainly take it another step further and average at 9-3.
If we could 'average' that, it would be pretty awesome.
A lot has to happen right though.
Recruiting out of state would have to be at a very high level, and we would have get a few legitimate SEC level prospects in state as well.
Impossible? I guess not... Difficult? Yep.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 10:22 pm to oklahogjr
The different moving parts in college football. Nothing stays the same and programs cycle up and down.
We are a large school in a power five conference. The only limits that we have is a desire or not to get better.
The problem is Arkansas hasn't been committed to getting better. The brass isn't on par with fan expectations. The fans aren't the problem but the brass continues to make bad hires that further put Arkansas behind the eight ball.
We are a large school in a power five conference. The only limits that we have is a desire or not to get better.
The problem is Arkansas hasn't been committed to getting better. The brass isn't on par with fan expectations. The fans aren't the problem but the brass continues to make bad hires that further put Arkansas behind the eight ball.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 10:39 pm to dchog
quote:
The problem is Arkansas hasn't been committed to getting better. The brass isn't on par with fan expectations. The fans aren't the problem but the brass continues to make bad hires that further put Arkansas behind the eight ball.
I love this. Yes the people working day in and day out on this stuff just don't care enough. If only they cared as much about the program as all of us sitting on the couch at home.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 10:41 pm to WonderWartHawg
Win with steady progress and it will change the reputation of the program. Rival schools will have off years and grow impatient. Then they will make bad hires and if Arkansas doesn't screw themselves, they can move up the ladder in the SEC.
So steady progress and patience while rival schools make mistakes can help Arkansas cycle up.
So steady progress and patience while rival schools make mistakes can help Arkansas cycle up.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 10:43 pm to WonderWartHawg
quote:average over what period?
we could 'average' that, it would be pretty awesome.
A lot has to happen right though.
Recruiting out of state would have to be at a very high level, and we would have get a few legitimate SEC level prospects in state as well.
Impossible? I guess not... Difficult? Yep.
Petrino didnt do that while he was here. He averaged 8.6 a year and flamed out spectacularly after only 3 seasons.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 11:29 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
Football is still the biggest college sport by a fairly wide margin. This makes being a football fan more fun. The discussions online and in real life can be found plentifully, which means excitement and bragging are plentiful. Being the best football team is like having the nicest house in the neighborhood. Having the best basketball team is like having the nicest car. Having the best baseball team is like having the nicest kitchen. Humans are a very keeping up with the Joneses type of creature, so we like whatever makes us look the best. Being good at all those things is fun, but being good at football is the most visible.
Here is the problem I have with being good at only football. And not even NC winning good, just 2010/2011 good:
We only have 12 games a year. 13 with a bowl. 14 with a conference championship appearance, which we've only had three times since we joined in 1992. Losing feels exponentially worse, and football season is brutally short. If you think about how little college football you actually get throughout your life, it's downright depressing. I like not being out of the discussion entirely after one loss. I like being able to see a couple games during a week. I like tickets being affordable. With the exception of the clout earned, it's objectively better to be a power in basketball and baseball combined than it is to be one in just football. September through part of December vs. November through June of having quality sports, bragging rights, and socializing with your friends and other fans.
The other issue is football is infuriatingly top-heavy, and there doesn't seem to be anything in the pipes to try and fix this. Baylor just won their first ever basketball NC in 2021. Virginia, a couple years before that. Coastal Carolina, Fresno State, and Rice have all won baseball NCs since the early 2000s. There's almost zero excitement like that in college football anymore. There's no Cinderalla story. There's no underdog going all the way. This is fine if you're a fan of maybe ten teams around the nation, but for everyone else, what's even the point anymore? It's getting worse, not better. The feeling is we're so far behind in football, we may never catch up. That's never the case in the other two big sports.
This is a naively hopeful narrative I wish people would stop pushing. Those teams all have something in common with each other that Arkansas doesn't: they're located in states with enough blue chip talent in their backyard to fuel their football teams. This is not just an oft-repeated excuse. Using 24/7sports as my guide, the state of Arkansas is producing three 4* recruits this cycle. The highest rated one is 90.4. That guy is also leaving to go to Texas A&M. Last year, Arkansas produced one 4* recruit, also a paltry 90.2 Also left for A&M. The year before that, just two. The highest rated one, yet again, committed to A&M.
The state of South Carolina is producing five 4* and one 5* recruit this year. Their lowest rated 4* is 93.4. And South Carolina is on the lower end of that blue chip spectrum, while still eclipsing us, so it makes sense that with maximizing the instate talent and strategically picking the talent-rich states around them, Clemson can pull themselves out of the dregs. There are 11 states with SEC football teams: Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, and Florida.
Alabama is producing two 5* and 11 4*. Georgia is producing four 5* and 28 4*. Louisiana has three 5* and 15 4*. Texas has TEN 5* (one with a perfect score) and 42 4*. Kentucky has four 4*. Mississippi has 11 4*. Missouri, the least CFB oriented SEC state, has a 5* and seven 4*. Florida is sitting at seven 5* and 37 4*. Tennessee is pulling in two 5* and 12 4*.
Arkansas is the lowest producing football state by an overwhelming margin. Half of them make as many or more 5* than we do 4*. I agree that recruiting rankings aren't the end-all, and the rankings are likely skewed for skill positions, but I'm tired of people pretending that the rankings don't matter, or can be overcome by a roster full of "diamond the rough" players. The teams currently ranked in the top five are Georgia, Ohio State, LSU, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma. The usual suspects. It's not a coincidence. The teams in the top ten are going to consistently play at a cut above the rest of the have-nots and pretenders.
Let's go ahead and put this one to bed while we're at it. Clemson won a title in 1981, nearly 20 years after our one and only. Hatfield was 10–2, 9–2, 5–6, and 8–3 at Clemson. In the nine years Bowden was there, he won 8/9 games five times and never had a losing season. "Clemsoning" is not a real thing, it's just something people made up for a jab. Those results are the exact ones people are saying is "possible" for us on the average. All it took was a great coach in a talent rich state to bring Clemson to their potential.
Unless HS football in AR gets its shite together, we simply do not have that potential. Couple that with a string of unqualified and underwhelming football hires, and the results have been dismal. Honestly, I'm tired of waiting for the stars to align. As an Arkansas fan, I of course have sour grapes, but even speaking objectively, CFB is an uphill battle that isn't any fun for most of the country.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing hockey make a surge in the south.
Here is the problem I have with being good at only football. And not even NC winning good, just 2010/2011 good:
We only have 12 games a year. 13 with a bowl. 14 with a conference championship appearance, which we've only had three times since we joined in 1992. Losing feels exponentially worse, and football season is brutally short. If you think about how little college football you actually get throughout your life, it's downright depressing. I like not being out of the discussion entirely after one loss. I like being able to see a couple games during a week. I like tickets being affordable. With the exception of the clout earned, it's objectively better to be a power in basketball and baseball combined than it is to be one in just football. September through part of December vs. November through June of having quality sports, bragging rights, and socializing with your friends and other fans.
The other issue is football is infuriatingly top-heavy, and there doesn't seem to be anything in the pipes to try and fix this. Baylor just won their first ever basketball NC in 2021. Virginia, a couple years before that. Coastal Carolina, Fresno State, and Rice have all won baseball NCs since the early 2000s. There's almost zero excitement like that in college football anymore. There's no Cinderalla story. There's no underdog going all the way. This is fine if you're a fan of maybe ten teams around the nation, but for everyone else, what's even the point anymore? It's getting worse, not better. The feeling is we're so far behind in football, we may never catch up. That's never the case in the other two big sports.
quote:
Too man y of you are acting like the same 4 schools have been good forever and will be so into perpetuate. Clemson was never great until dabo. Hell that was the term for blowing it “clemsoning”. Florida state was arse before Bowden, Florida was shite before spurrier, Oklahoma was in the doldrums in between switzer and stoops. Hell even bama had a big drop off in between Saban and the bear.
This is a naively hopeful narrative I wish people would stop pushing. Those teams all have something in common with each other that Arkansas doesn't: they're located in states with enough blue chip talent in their backyard to fuel their football teams. This is not just an oft-repeated excuse. Using 24/7sports as my guide, the state of Arkansas is producing three 4* recruits this cycle. The highest rated one is 90.4. That guy is also leaving to go to Texas A&M. Last year, Arkansas produced one 4* recruit, also a paltry 90.2 Also left for A&M. The year before that, just two. The highest rated one, yet again, committed to A&M.
The state of South Carolina is producing five 4* and one 5* recruit this year. Their lowest rated 4* is 93.4. And South Carolina is on the lower end of that blue chip spectrum, while still eclipsing us, so it makes sense that with maximizing the instate talent and strategically picking the talent-rich states around them, Clemson can pull themselves out of the dregs. There are 11 states with SEC football teams: Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, and Florida.
Alabama is producing two 5* and 11 4*. Georgia is producing four 5* and 28 4*. Louisiana has three 5* and 15 4*. Texas has TEN 5* (one with a perfect score) and 42 4*. Kentucky has four 4*. Mississippi has 11 4*. Missouri, the least CFB oriented SEC state, has a 5* and seven 4*. Florida is sitting at seven 5* and 37 4*. Tennessee is pulling in two 5* and 12 4*.
Arkansas is the lowest producing football state by an overwhelming margin. Half of them make as many or more 5* than we do 4*. I agree that recruiting rankings aren't the end-all, and the rankings are likely skewed for skill positions, but I'm tired of people pretending that the rankings don't matter, or can be overcome by a roster full of "diamond the rough" players. The teams currently ranked in the top five are Georgia, Ohio State, LSU, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma. The usual suspects. It's not a coincidence. The teams in the top ten are going to consistently play at a cut above the rest of the have-nots and pretenders.
quote:
Hell that was the term for blowing it "clemsoning"
Let's go ahead and put this one to bed while we're at it. Clemson won a title in 1981, nearly 20 years after our one and only. Hatfield was 10–2, 9–2, 5–6, and 8–3 at Clemson. In the nine years Bowden was there, he won 8/9 games five times and never had a losing season. "Clemsoning" is not a real thing, it's just something people made up for a jab. Those results are the exact ones people are saying is "possible" for us on the average. All it took was a great coach in a talent rich state to bring Clemson to their potential.
Unless HS football in AR gets its shite together, we simply do not have that potential. Couple that with a string of unqualified and underwhelming football hires, and the results have been dismal. Honestly, I'm tired of waiting for the stars to align. As an Arkansas fan, I of course have sour grapes, but even speaking objectively, CFB is an uphill battle that isn't any fun for most of the country.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing hockey make a surge in the south.
Posted on 5/24/21 at 6:34 am to VagueMessage
Oklahoma and Arkansas are literally mirror images of each other. We rely on Texas talent to be great. The only difference is we also border Louisiana and Mississippi who also produce decent football talent. It’s not naive it’s the damn truth. We are not doomed to suck at football forever people. Clemson is successful because they found a great coach. That’s all you need.
I’ll say again: football teams are not set in stone to be great for eternity. Just ask Miami, USC, Michigan, Nebraska
I’ll say again: football teams are not set in stone to be great for eternity. Just ask Miami, USC, Michigan, Nebraska
This post was edited on 5/24/21 at 7:28 am
Posted on 5/24/21 at 6:59 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Oklahoma and Arkansas are literally mirror images of each other. We rely on Texas talent to be great. The only difference is we also border Louisiana and Mississippi who also produce decent football talent. It’s not naive it’s the damn truth. We are not doomed to suck at football forever people. Clemson is successful because they found a great coach. That’s all you need.
There is also the fact Oklahoma is closer to most of Texas than us. It's not like we have some huge close border with Texas, close to school. We barely connect to a corner of it on the the far south side away from the University.
Posted on 5/24/21 at 7:27 am to oklahogjr
Have you seen the parts of Texas Oklahoma is close too? We’re way closer to Houston than OU is and the distance from Dallas to Arkansas I believe is closer than Dallas to Oklahoma
Something else. A lot of you seem to forget is we had the 2 worst seasons in our football programs entire history in the past 10 years under bert, bert again, and then chad topped it twice by going 2-10. We’d never won less than 4 games before bert and he won only 3 twice. Then chad only won 2 games both years he was here. We hired historically bad coaches. Not mediocre coaches, hell that’s what Houston nutt was mediocre, and he still won 8-9 games a few times, and got us to the sec championship game. Nutt was as middle of the road as they come and look how he did. With the right coach we can and have been successful some of y’all just can’t seem to remember past the last decade
Something else. A lot of you seem to forget is we had the 2 worst seasons in our football programs entire history in the past 10 years under bert, bert again, and then chad topped it twice by going 2-10. We’d never won less than 4 games before bert and he won only 3 twice. Then chad only won 2 games both years he was here. We hired historically bad coaches. Not mediocre coaches, hell that’s what Houston nutt was mediocre, and he still won 8-9 games a few times, and got us to the sec championship game. Nutt was as middle of the road as they come and look how he did. With the right coach we can and have been successful some of y’all just can’t seem to remember past the last decade
This post was edited on 5/24/21 at 7:38 am
Posted on 5/24/21 at 8:42 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Have you seen the parts of Texas Oklahoma is close too? We’re way closer to Houston than OU is and the distance from Dallas to Arkansas I believe is closer than Dallas to Oklahoma
Wouldn’t it make more sense to make these measurements off of Fayetteville and Norman’s distance to those areas in Texas? Sure Arkansas the state is close to Texas but they’d be going to school in Fayetteville and not Texarkana.
Posted on 5/24/21 at 9:42 am to TheCheshireHog
It’s about the same 3 hours each
Posted on 5/24/21 at 11:57 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
It’s about the same 3 hours each
Dallas to Fayetteville 5.5 hours via us 75
Dallas to Norman 3 hours and 7 minutes via i35
Houston to Norman 6.5 hours i35 &i 45
Houston to Fayetteville 8 hours 54 minutes. Us 259 north
These trips aren't that comparable. OU is much closer and has better routes to access these metro areas than the u of A.
Posted on 5/24/21 at 12:28 pm to oklahogjr
We have second largest alumni base in Texas besides A&M in the SEC. A huge following in the Dallas metro. It was long ago that more half of the freshman class was from Texas.
Not a substantial great advantage of distance that Oklahoma has over Arkansas.
What they do have over us is they play in a much weaker conference, is a brand name and have a scandalous reputation of cheating at the highest level.
Not a substantial great advantage of distance that Oklahoma has over Arkansas.
What they do have over us is they play in a much weaker conference, is a brand name and have a scandalous reputation of cheating at the highest level.
Posted on 5/24/21 at 12:40 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
Miami has a small fanbase with terrible facilities. The stadium isn't even on campus.
USC has a shrinking fanbase that aren't interested as the fans of old.
Michigan is a result of poor coaching.
Nebraska no longer has any advantages that has kept them on top. Now they are just mediocre.
USC has a shrinking fanbase that aren't interested as the fans of old.
Michigan is a result of poor coaching.
Nebraska no longer has any advantages that has kept them on top. Now they are just mediocre.
Page 3 of 6
Latest Arkansas News
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News