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re: Tide Hoops | Please Anchor

Posted on 1/16/22 at 4:29 pm to
Posted by phil4bama
Emerald Coast of PCB
Member since Jul 2011
11934 posts
Posted on 1/16/22 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

Ladies go to 1-5 in SEC….


Time for Curry to be shown the door.
Posted by Joka2kold
Member since Nov 2019
6151 posts
Posted on 1/16/22 at 6:26 pm to
True! He has to utilize his midrange game when they are in and don't over penetrate.
Posted by Cobrasize
Birmingham
Member since Jun 2013
49887 posts
Posted on 1/16/22 at 6:39 pm to
quote:

Time for Curry to be shown the door.


Yup
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
105802 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 8:26 am to
Since December 21st we are 2-4 and have lost those 4 games by a combined 13 points (1, 6, 4, 2).

Over that period of time our 3 main guards (JD, JQ, Shack) are 25/102 from 3PT (24.5%). Those 3 also have our 3 worst Offensive Box Plus/Minus, 3 worst defensive box plus minus, 3 worst overall box plus minus, 3 worst offensive ratings, and 3 worst true shooting percentages.

Box Plus Minus
> vs Davidson (lost by 1) : Shack/JD/JQ --- (-1.8)
> @ Missouri (lost by 6) : Shack/JD/JQ --- (+2.1)
> vs Auburn (lost by 4) : Shack/JD/JQ --- (-6.6)
> @ Miss St (lost by 2) : Shack/JD/JQ --- (-10.4)

Conclusions are pretty simple
1. We can't win with our 3 guards playing like this. Against anybody competent. If they continue to play this poorly, we will struggle to win any conference games.

2. Even with them playing this poorly (and nobody else playing much better than average), we have been in position to win all 4 games we've lost over the last month in the last minute of the game. If they even play average basketball as a group we are probably sitting at 14-3 (4-1) right now.


So - it really comes down to if you think Shack/JQ/JD can/will play better basketball than they have the last month or not. If they do, we have a chance to win some games and get right again. If they don't, the season is going to continue to go down in agonizing flames.
This post was edited on 1/17/22 at 8:32 am
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
105802 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 8:40 am to
Also, just FYI, the small lineup that was so smugly pushed for in this thread the other night as the answer to all our problems (Quinerly/Davison/Shackelford/Ellis/Gurley)?

- 44th out of 45 in the SEC in Defensive Efficiency
- 37th out of 45 in the SEC in Offensive Efficiency
- 41st out of 45 in the SEC in Net Efficiency
This post was edited on 1/17/22 at 8:41 am
Posted by Robot Santa
Member since Oct 2009
46345 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 8:45 am to
I think Shack will start shooting better. He's still going to be an atrocious defender who can't finish at the rim, but he will be fine from outside. Too much of a consistent history of decent shooting on high volume to think he could randomly turn into a pumpkin from outside for an entire season.

JQ I don't know what to think. Too much of a mixed bag in all respects to have any idea of what he actually is. He could be the shite player he was at Villanova, early last year, and so far this year, or he could be the All-SEC type guy he was the second half of last year. Who knows. That may have just been a hot streak, but hot streaks don't typically last for two months.

JD I have zero expectations for. He's an A+ athlete but he can't play halfcourt basketball with such a terrible shot and poor ball security. And because our defense is fricking putrid his open court opportunities are limited. He's pretty useless as a player on a terrible defensive team like this one.
This post was edited on 1/17/22 at 8:48 am
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
105802 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 8:46 am to
SEC Lineup Ranks (at least 50 possessions)

Quinerly/Shackelford/Ellis/Gary/Gurley (61 possessions used)
- 2nd out of 45 in the SEC in Offensive Efficiency
- 24th out of 45 in the SEC in Defensive Efficiency
- 2nd out of 45 in the SEC in Overall Efficiency


Quinerly/Shackelford/Davison/Miles/Gurley (57 possessions used)
- 1st out of 45 in the SEC in Offensive Efficiency
- 35th out of 45 in the SEC in Defensive Efficiency
- 3rd out of 45 in the SEC in Overall Efficiency


Quinerly/Shackelford/Ellis/Miles/Bediako (58 possessions used)
- 10th out of 45 in the SEC in Offensive Efficiency
- 6th out of 45 in the SEC in Defensive Efficiency
- 4th out of 45 in the SEC in Overall Efficiency



Our most used lineup.......

Quinerly/Shackelford/Ellis/Gary/Bediako (171 possessions used)
- 27th out of 45 in the SEC in Offensive Efficiency
- 38th out of 45 in the SEC in Defensive Efficiency
- 38th out of 45 in the SEC in Overall Efficiency
This post was edited on 1/17/22 at 8:49 am
Posted by Robot Santa
Member since Oct 2009
46345 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:03 am to
It's not surprising that Miles is in 2 of our 3 best lineups but is 8th on the team in minutes. I honestly don't understand what is going on between him and the staff, because it seems like he's held to a higher standard than anyone else on the roster. Everyone else, even the freshmen, is given a long (often too long) leash, but Miles gets a quick hook any time he makes a stupid mistake.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
105802 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:07 am to
quote:

It's not surprising that Miles is in 2 of our 3 best lineups but is 8th on the team in minutes. I honestly don't understand what is going on between him and the staff, because it seems like he's held to a higher standard than anyone else on the roster. Everyone else, even the freshmen, is given a long (often too long) leash, but Miles gets a quick hook any time he makes a stupid mistake.


All I know is he needs to get more minutes. He's raw, he screws up, but he's one of a small handful of guys on our roster who has the ability to make plays on both ends of the floor. It's clear he makes basically every lineup better with his presence it.

Oats has to do a better job of piecing these lineups together. Our roster construction once Burnett went down became very ugly and there are a whole bunch of combinations that you just can't play in SEC games, and we seem to play them way too frequently. I know foul trouble messes that stuff up, but Miles should be getting 25-30 minutes a night. Not 15.
Posted by paperwasp
2x HRV 2025 Poster of the Year
Member since Sep 2014
29953 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:09 am to
quote:

Shack/JQ/JD can/will play better basketball

It's the hair.

All three need a 'do change to right this ship.
Posted by Skybox_rtr
Atlanta, GA
Member since May 2021
311 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:12 am to
Woof…not pretty at all. I think I’m done with the “this is a must-win game” now after this past weekend, but I do think we need to go AT LEAST 2-1 the next 3 games to salvage any remote expectations of success this season. The next 6 SEC games after that are brutal and the Baylor game in between is going to be a really tough one to win as well. Thankfully we have 3 winnable games after that before a dog fight in Baton Rouge to end the season. With how things have gone, I think just finishing with a winning record in SEC play should be the goal.
Posted by paperwasp
2x HRV 2025 Poster of the Year
Member since Sep 2014
29953 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:16 am to
quote:

Our roster construction became very ugly

I still can't figure out Holt's actual role in all of this.
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26670 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:20 am to
quote:

I still can't figure out Holt's actual role in all of this.


Probably in the transfer portal with Tchikou come season's end
Posted by Robot Santa
Member since Oct 2009
46345 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:24 am to
quote:


I still can't figure out Holt's actual role in all of this.


Freshman 3&D wing whose 3 has vanished. A big problem we have right now is that both Holt and KAH are so bad on offense that you can't play them despite their defensive competency.
Posted by Robot Santa
Member since Oct 2009
46345 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:33 am to
quote:


Oats has to do a better job of piecing these lineups together. Our roster construction once Burnett went down became very ugly and there are a whole bunch of combinations that you just can't play in SEC games, and we seem to play them way too frequently. I know foul trouble messes that stuff up, but Miles should be getting 25-30 minutes a night. Not 15.


Agree with all of that. Miles needs to get starters minutes even if it's in the 6th man role.

And obviously hindsight is 20/20, but we probably shouldn't have re-recruited Shack out of the portal and instead went after another big, rangy guard like Burnett. Those are the kind of guys you need if you're going to play strictly man to man and switch on everything.
Posted by DT55Forever1
Member since Jan 2018
3154 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:35 am to
quote:

A big problem we have right now is that both Holt and KAH are so bad on offense that you can't play them despite their defensive competency.


I understand but I'm not sure how I feel about it. There are a lot of successful teams that have guys that are strictly defense and rebounding guys. Obviously, we would need our other four to get it going though.
Posted by DT55Forever1
Member since Jan 2018
3154 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:45 am to
quote:

(Quinerly/Davison/Shackelford/Ellis/Gurley)?

- 44th out of 45 in the SEC in Defensive Efficiency
- 37th out of 45 in the SEC in Offensive Efficiency
- 41st out of 45 in the SEC in Net Efficiency


quote:

Quinerly/Shackelford/Davison/Miles/Gurley (57 possessions used)
- 1st out of 45 in the SEC in Offensive Efficiency
- 35th out of 45 in the SEC in Defensive Efficiency
- 3rd out of 45 in the SEC in Overall Efficiency


It's crazy how you can swap out one player and get such a difference. I don't know what to do with them anymore. Like you said, shooting better will solve a lot of issues.
Posted by Robot Santa
Member since Oct 2009
46345 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 9:58 am to
quote:

There are a lot of successful teams that have guys that are strictly defense and rebounding guys. Obviously, we would need our other four to get it going though.


Most of those guys play the 5 almost exclusively. Defense only guards and wings are pretty rare, and I'd bet 90% of them are actually pretty good on offense outside of putting the ball through the hoop. In other words they cut, pass, screen, and move without the ball in general really effectively. Basically your classic high basketball IQ guys like Herb.

KAH could play the 5 in a small lineup but he's far from your traditional "I'm here to grab boards and frick you up" 6"11" 260 pound big who does literally nothing on offense besides set a few screens, grab rebounds, and score on putback dunks or lobs.

Holt is a wing and generally doesn't understand how to play offense at this level yet, which just makes the fact that his 3pt shot has abandoned him render him unplayable.
This post was edited on 1/17/22 at 9:59 am
Posted by DT55Forever1
Member since Jan 2018
3154 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 10:04 am to
quote:

Most of those guys play the 5 almost exclusively. Defense only guards and wings are pretty rare


That's true. I guess it is pretty rare for that guy to be a guard. I was thinking of some of the 6'6"-6'8" forwards that we've seen as defensive stoppers and rebounders and done very well and helped their teams. Kind of a Rodman type player.
Posted by DLev45
Member since Aug 2018
732 posts
Posted on 1/17/22 at 10:35 am to
quote:

Holt is a wing and generally doesn't understand how to play offense at this level yet, which just makes the fact that his 3pt shot has abandoned him render him unplayable.


When did we decide that Holt just can't shoot 3's? He has only attempted 9 on the season. Granted, he is 1/9, but we've seen JQ and Shack do that in a single game plenty of times.

Shack went 1/9 in the Mississippi State game, alone. Quinerly was similarly 2/10 against Auburn. That's just single games in the past 6 days.
This post was edited on 1/17/22 at 10:37 am
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