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re: Scott Cochran is leaving for Georgia to become special teams coach.Yes, that Scott Cochran
Posted on 2/25/20 at 1:41 pm to tider04
Posted on 2/25/20 at 1:41 pm to tider04
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1. Bama has not been a physically dominant team the way they were from 08-17. At best they were on par with other top teams, and the defense straight up got pushed around in 18-19 at times in ways that had NEVER happened before under Saban. That's just a fact.
I agree with this whole heartedly. But I think what needs to be realized is that Saban created an arms race in college football. It's just as much of a cause as anything. Other schools are now putting much more money into development and recruiting as well as upgraded facilities. Getting their kids bigger stronger. On the flip side to that, we have guys leaving early and injuries that are leaving spots filled with younger guys. Couple those facts with the landscape of college football is spread high tempo and that leads us to where we are currently.
It's not just one thing. It's a culmination of several totally different and independent situations all coming together. Thats why it seems like we are getting pushed around because we are, but so is everyone else. Just we aren't used to seeing it.
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Posted on 2/25/20 at 1:42 pm to RollTide1987
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When are people going to realize that Saban is the system? Cochran was important to us, don't get me wrong, but coordinators and other assistant coaches have come and gone very liberally since Saban arrived in 2007.
Cochran is by far the other most important person as far as all that is concerned. He was the good cop when the coaching staff (mainly Saban) was the bad cop (by design). He the most important person to most of the kids in the program and the person they took most of their non-football issues to. That isn't a skillset that is unique to Scott Cochran, but it is one that he provided for a decade plus that was 100% fully trusted by Nick Saban. It's a big hole to fill, and a hole inside the organization as a whole that is different than hiring a new coordinator (who comes in and runs the "Alabama System" as Saban routinely notes).
Doesn't mean it can't be filled, but it's a unique departure in terms of the void that it leaves.
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 2/25/20 at 1:50 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Agree SOG, which is why a guy like Feld--who served under Saban/Cochran at Alabama, and then under Kirby at UGA (who copies everything in Saban's program) is so important. The guy knows the deal, he knows what to expect, he's seen it in person and then went out and executed it at Oregon turning them into one of the top 5 teams in the country.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 1:59 pm to tider04
quote:
Agree SOG, which is why a guy like Feld--who served under Saban/Cochran at Alabama, and then under Kirby at UGA (who copies everything in Saban's program) is so important. The guy knows the deal, he knows what to expect, he's seen it in person and then went out and executed it at Oregon turning them into one of the top 5 teams in the country.
Absolutely agree - he seems like the perfect fit from both the S&C side and, maybe more importantly, the personal relationship side. He knows exactly what he is getting into and he's executed it at Oregon.
Nobody is a home run because of the unique aspect of the job, but this seems about as close to one as we could get.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 2:52 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I've watched this thing (Alabama) rise and fall more than once and S&C coaches are important, but they reflect the coaches desire. When our coaches were soft, so were the players, when the coaches were Satan (figuratively) our players could and would chew nails and spit fire. So the motivation of your program is never the S&C guy, he's just a critical tool the head coach uses.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 5:19 pm to tider04
quote:
Agree SOG, which is why a guy like Feld--who served under Saban/Cochran at Alabama, and then under Kirby at UGA (who copies everything in Saban's program) is so important. The guy knows the deal, he knows what to expect, he's seen it in person and then went out and executed it at Oregon turning them into one of the top 5 teams in the country.
Which is why I won't lose any sleep over Cochran if we land Feld or someone like him.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 6:41 pm to Robot Santa
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Yeah, the "he will be a 290lb DE in no time" joke about an incoming freshman linebacker is popular around here but there is some kernel of truth to it. We do tend to bulk guys up a lot despite the fact that for every throwback, run first offense you face these days you have to play 10 RPO based spread teams.
How much of that was SC's fault and how much of that was him delivering what was asked of him?
Posted on 2/25/20 at 6:51 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Good question, but either way, we need to get quicker in our front 7. If you can play big AND fast (like Q Williams or J Allen)--awesome. But if we have to give up 10 lbs per man to gain speed to get to the QB and cover TE's and RB's--that should be an easy trade-off in today's age of HUNH spread offenses.
Guys like Shane Lee, Lebryan Ray, Raekwon Davis and even DJ Dale were all too heavy last season. Heck even young guys like Justin Egboibe got too heavy. They'd all do well to drop 10-15 lbs and play leaner and faster.
Guys like Shane Lee, Lebryan Ray, Raekwon Davis and even DJ Dale were all too heavy last season. Heck even young guys like Justin Egboibe got too heavy. They'd all do well to drop 10-15 lbs and play leaner and faster.
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 2/26/20 at 8:46 am to tider04
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Good question, but either way, we need to get quicker in our front 7. If you can play big AND fast (like Q Williams or J Allen)--awesome. But if we have to give up 10 lbs per man to gain speed to get to the QB and cover TE's and RB's--that should be an easy trade-off in today's age of HUNH spread offenses.
The size of our guys is a growing concern given how other successful teams have been willing to downsize and step out there on that "small ball" defensive ledge.
Guys like Venables are intriguing because he's totally committed to matching these spread teams' speed for speed. As aggressive as an Oklahoma or Ohio State, even the barners, this guy is "attacking" that hard on defense. And I like it.
Clemson has something they call "The Dime of Dome."
Clemson removes a DT in their base 4-3 and employs a 3-2-6 or blended 4-1-6 with a third defensive end bumped inside to tackle.
Then Venable's gets aggressive as hell. This quasi-dime ostensibly uses smaller, faster players closer in profile to defensive backs, and larger safeties to help fill against the run. Venables just mix and matches these guys to adjust to spread offense tactics.
Venable's overall defensive philosophies and schemes are dropping a defensive back into the box 50% of the time – and that’s only counting the plays where he isn’t bringing a blitz. So Venables is still committed to stopping the run and is letting his guys play one-on-one coverage to do it.
Obviously, with this style of "small ball" attack, everything is predicated on "the pass rush." He has to turn the dogs of hell on these QBs. If his front four is harassing the quarterback early and often, then Clemson’s scheme is incredibly hard to overcome and he's getting his guys off the freakin' field. If he doesn't get to the QB his defensive stuff tends to get passed on.
Everything is always a trade-off in football, but some new defensive approaches I hope are coming this spring. We put a huge team on the field last season and playing a bend but don't break style was about all we could do for self-preservation. Playing smaller and more aggressive is a hell of a tradeoff for coach Saban. It's a longshot.
Posted on 2/26/20 at 9:48 am to bamameister
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Guys like Venables are intriguing because he's totally committed to matching these spread teams' speed for speed. As aggressive as an Oklahoma or Ohio State, even the barners, this guy is "attacking" that hard on defense. And I like it.
Clemson did worse against LSU than Alabama did, despite not having a ton of injuries and being forced to play a bunch of freshman up front.
Oklahoma got handled in the playoffs by Alabama, even with their "1st round draft pick QB".
The shite ain't broke and doesn't need to be fixed or changed. Just need guys to stay healthy.
Posted on 2/26/20 at 9:55 am to 3down10
Health is key, but a little fresh blood in terms of ideas, schemes, blitz packages, etc would be a welcomed change IMO.
Posted on 2/26/20 at 10:12 am to 3down10
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Clemson did worse against LSU than Alabama did, despite not having a ton of injuries and being forced to play a bunch of freshman up front.
Oklahoma got handled in the playoffs by Alabama, even with their "1st round draft pick QB".
The shite ain't broke and doesn't need to be fixed or changed. Just need guys to stay healthy.
As usual, you totally missed my point. Try taking those ear muffs off.
What each DC does is always unique and peculiar to their team and talent available. It's each DCs style and imagination that is on display every Saturday. I'm pretty sure I was talking about an Alabama problem, not Clemson. And the discussion I framed was about a smaller ball approach as opposed to the size of our front 7 we witnessed last season and the schemes it allowed us to run. Not who has the better DC, Golding or Venerable. Thu I'm not sure it would be much of a peeing contest.
And for what it's worth, it's kinda why all these assistant coaches spend a lot of time and money visiting other football programs. To learn a better way. Try to stay with that point.
I would love to see a more aggressive small-ball approach to these dynamic spread teams. I'd also love to see Saban recruit more Mark Barrons. The NFL version.
Posted on 2/26/20 at 10:18 am to bamameister
quote:
As usual, you totally missed my point. Try taking those ear muffs off.
What each DC does is always unique and peculiar to their team and talent available. It's each DCs style and imagination that is on display every Saturday. I'm pretty sure I was talking about an Alabama problem, not Clemson. And the discussion I framed was about a smaller ball approach as opposed to the size of our front 7 we witnessed last season and the schemes it allowed us to run. Not who has the better DC, Golding or Venerable. Thu I'm not sure it would be much of a peeing contest.
And for what it's worth, it's kinda why all these assistant coaches spend a lot of time and money visiting other football programs. To learn a better way. Try to stay with that point.
I would love to see a more aggressive small-ball approach to these dynamic spread teams. I'd also love to see Saban recruit more Mark Barrons. The NFL version.
What you claimed is better is demonstrability not better.
Posted on 2/26/20 at 10:25 am to 3down10
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What you claimed is better is demonstrability not better.
Which doesn't really explain your hurry to be offended?
Posted on 2/26/20 at 10:29 am to bamameister
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Which doesn't really explain your hurry to be offended?
What the frick are you talking about?
Posted on 2/26/20 at 10:31 am to 3down10
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What the frick are you talking about?
Case and point. You really are quite emotional, aren't you?
Posted on 2/26/20 at 10:32 am to tider04
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Health is key, but a little fresh blood in terms of ideas, schemes, blitz packages, etc would be a welcomed change IMO.
I'm sure getting better is always welcome, however the limitations in this department last year was due to inexperience in the front 7, rather than needing outside ideas.
Posted on 2/26/20 at 10:34 am to bamameister
quote:
Case and point. You really are quite emotional, aren't you?
You seem to be the one that's butthurt.
All I did was point out that the defenses you claimed we needed to move towards actually did worse against common opponents.
Since that post, you've been doing nothing but talk about me personally. I must be upset, blah blah blah.
Might as well be posting on the rant and have anything said get replied to as "melt".
Posted on 2/26/20 at 11:27 am to 3down10
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I'm sure getting better is always welcome, however the limitations in this department last year was due to inexperience in the front 7, rather than needing outside ideas.
Not everything is a zero sum game. Sometimes there multiple factors that contribute to a particular outcome. Not sure why that's hard for you to understand. Why did our defense struggle against the good offenses they played in 2018? We had a healthy Moses and Mac Wilson manning the middle and Q Williams wrecking sh!t up front. Plenty of talent and experience. And yet they got lit up for 40+ both playoff games and gave up 31 against Arky, almost 30 against a pedestrian UGA offense, lots of yards against several others. Our primary blitz package has been the very lame/ineffective delayed LB blitz for years now. Say what you will about Clemson or LSU but their defenses are moving around, shifting, you never know where the blitz is coming from--but you know it's coming. No coincidence that those teams have won 3/4 natties. I'm not saying our defense needs to be completely trashed, but I am saying some tweaks and fresh ideas are needed.
Posted on 2/26/20 at 11:30 am to tider04
This is a good post, and I'm not inherently disagreeing with it, however everyone needs to remember that we are currently living in an offensive Renaissance in college football. Everybody is scoring more points than they were just a few years ago, and everyone needs to keep that in mind when having this type of conversation.
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