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re: Am I the only Bama fan upset about Urban Meyer's career possibly coming to an end?
Posted on 8/2/18 at 2:01 pm to 14&Counting
Posted on 8/2/18 at 2:01 pm to 14&Counting
I'm not a title IX expert or anything, but most reports i've said noted he had a duty to report allegations due to Urban's position as well as because Smith was an employee of the university. I would assume all that is accurate if its being reported in multiple sources as such.
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Posted on 8/2/18 at 2:04 pm to CAbamafan
quote:
I just don't think that multiple men should lose their careers because one guy punched his wife. Just because it might've been the right thing to report the incident doesn't mean someone should be made to suffer for not reporting it. I'm just arguing a philosophical point, irregardless of the law. It doesn't make sense.
How would you feel if it came out that Lane Kiffin hit his wife 3 years ago, and Saban knew about it but didn't fire him. Would you think Saban was some horrible person worthy of firing?
I don't believe this should come back on anyone but the man who hit his wife
I would definitely think less of Saban - and if he failed in his job by not fulfilling his title IX duties that is a problem. The final issue with Urban is he lied about it multiple times - most recently at the media days - which indicates he knew he was doing something wrong and trying to cover it up for whatever reason. Had he been "honest" and said stuff like "we were trying to get them help" or whatever it may be - while admitting he made a mistake he wouldn't be in such hot water IMO.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 3:11 pm to elposter
quote:
What law? I'm genuinely curious. I wouldn't be that surprised there is a law applicable to Shelley Meyer in this situation but just want to understand more about it. Also is Shelley facing a criminal charge or civil liability for failing this legal duty?
Shelley Meyer is an instructor of Clinical Nursing at Ohio State and a Registered Nurse. Both of those titles bind her to reporting knowledge of abuse under Title IX.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 3:17 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
I would definitely think less of Saban - and if he failed in his job by not fulfilling his title IX duties that is a problem. The final issue with Urban is he lied about it multiple times - most recently at the media days - which indicates he knew he was doing something wrong and trying to cover it up for whatever reason. Had he been "honest" and said stuff like "we were trying to get them help" or whatever it may be - while admitting he made a mistake he wouldn't be in such hot water IMO.
He'd still be in deep shite because his contract says he has to report suspected abuse up the chain. He never did so. Denying knowledge of it was the only possible way out, but because all those text messages were saved there's simply no way for him to maintain ignorance. He was done the second he decided to cover for the guy instead of letting the AD know.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:47 pm to CAbamafan
quote:
I just don't think that multiple men should lose their careers because one guy punched his wife.
I don't really disagree, but Meyer and Co. are on the wrong side of the wrong issue at the wrong time in the wrong country. The US of A is addicted to accusing/judging someone of something, sometimes rightly, sometimes not - but it's the reality of the country you live in and social media thrives on it.
The court of public opinion dominates societal thought, and going against it is frowned upon by a vocal minority, but they're vocal enough to dominate.
Again, this is a PR apocalypse, but that's all that's necessary to tank a public figure given the employing institution's desire to stay out of the media negatively.
Right or wrong, this is your United States.
Add in blatant disregard for state/federal laws, and then you're royally fricked.
This post was edited on 8/3/18 at 1:30 am
Posted on 8/2/18 at 6:08 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
I'm not a title IX expert or anything, but most reports i've said noted he had a duty to report allegations due to Urban's position as well as because Smith was an employee of the university. I would assume all that is accurate if its being reported in multiple sources as such.
For a Title IX violation doesn't the aggrieved party have to be a student? Urban likely violated some clause in his contract about reporting sexual harassment, abuse, whatever involving anyone at tOSU but unclear if this is actually a Title IX issue.
I say this because that is what I have been told by the resident legal scholars at Buckeye Planet who are on a DefCon 5 meltdown and are desperately looking for a loophole.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 6:14 pm to FairhopeTider
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She reached out to Shelley Meyer, who had a legal & moral obligation to report the issue.
Excuse me, but weren't the police called? Once the police become involved, why isn't it their responsibility to report to all relevant parties?
And rather than reaching out to Shelley Meyer, why didn't she go straight to the AD herself? Then there is never any question about who said what to whom.
I'm not saying Meyer shouldn't have fired the guy. I have no sympathy for Meyer whatsoever.
The way all of this went down, it created the opportunity to give Meyer plausible deniability. No one yet has definitively said, on the record, that Urban Meyer was told. What if Shelley comes out and states that she withheld it from Urban to protect him?
Posted on 8/2/18 at 6:22 pm to 14&Counting
quote:
For a Title IX violation doesn't the aggrieved party have to be a student?
Maybe technically as far as federal law is concerned.
But each university is required to have a policy dealing with sexual misconduct, and here are quotes from Ohio State's:
"Members of the university community have the right to be free from all forms of sexual misconduct which impede the realization of the university’s mission of distinction in education, scholarship, and service. All members of the university community are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that maintains an environment free from sexual misconduct."
Definitions: "University community: Faculty, staff, students, student employees, graduate associates, appointees, volunteers, supplier/contractor, and visitors."
She certainly could be defined as being a member of the university community.
LINK
Posted on 8/2/18 at 6:51 pm to arp0925
I’m indifferent
Posted on 8/2/18 at 7:07 pm to prevatt33
quote:
The court of public opinion dominates societal thought, and going against it is frowned upon by a vocal minority, but they're vocal enough to dominate.
Again, this is a PR apocalypse, but that's all that's necessary to tank a public figure given the employing institution's desire to stay of of the media negatively.
Right or wrong, this is your United States.
Add in blatant disregard for state/federal laws, and then you're royally fricked.
Absolutely
Posted on 8/2/18 at 7:38 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
She certainly could be defined as being a member of the university community.
Right and I agree totally......I think there is definitely cause there per University policy and his employment contract.......I just don't think there is a Title IX issue at play here. There is certainly cause here at least on the surface.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 10:27 pm to 14&Counting
It’s looking like he may get a couple games suspension now anyway
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:16 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
He's a HORRIBLE person.
I think this is an overstatement. He is a person who did a horrible thing. Like him or not, he's spent a large part of his life devoted to charitable causes. He failed Courtney Smith terribly, and deserves whatever comes from it, but that is not all of who he is. JMHO.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:20 pm to 14&Counting
quote:
For a Title IX violation doesn't the aggrieved party have to be a student?
No.
quote:
I say this because that is what I have been told by the resident legal scholars at Buckeye Planet who are on a DefCon 5 meltdown and are desperately looking for a loophole.
I'm sure they are desperate, but she has legal standing under Title IX because of the state employment positions of the abuser, the confidant, and the circle of knowing parties under employment of the university.
This post was edited on 8/2/18 at 11:23 pm
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:39 pm to Evolved Simian
quote:
I'm sure they are desperate, but she has legal standing under Title IX because of the state employment positions of the abuser, the confidant, and the circle of knowing parties under employment of the university.
You got a link to that?
I'm not saying you are wrong I would just be interested to read it and get better educated on it.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:51 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
What if Shelley comes out and states that she withheld it from Urban to protect him?
Then I would call BS. Even the other coaches’ wives were saying Urban knew. Meyer and his wife have admitted to helping the couple before after a previous incident. There’s no way in Hell she didn’t tell him. Even if she did, all he had to do was report it so he could at least cover his own arse.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 11:44 am to 14&Counting
quote:
looking for a loophole
The only loophole I've gotten wind of so far is that Shelley may skirt Title IX responsibility due to not being employed in a 'supervisory capacity' at the Nursing School, which would absolve her from telling anyone. Then, if she falls on a giant sword and says she kept it from Urban, then maybe you've got something.
But it involves several leaps of logic and some serious moral dancing, and the public/internet masses won't buy it enough for him to keep his job.
But it may allow him to exit Ohio St unceremoniously and pop up at another school in the future. Heard that one before?
Me personally, I think a bunch of stuff will continue to come out from his time at both Ohio St and FL and he's screwed. Just my 2 cents.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 12:32 pm to prevatt33
quote:
Am I the only Bama fan upset about Urban Meyer's career possibly coming to an end?
No. Time for him to fake another heart attack and go away.
Bitch arse couldn't handle the pressure, moved off to easier pastures and the job was STILL too big for him
frick him, and frick THE Ohio State University.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 12:40 pm to Grievous Angel
It doesn’t bother me at all. Urban can get his arse whipped by Saban/Bama within the next couple of seasons on our way to another championship, or we can whip somebody else’s arse on the way to a championship.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 1:40 pm to prevatt33
quote:
But it involves several leaps of logic and some serious moral dancing, and the public/internet masses won't buy it enough for him to keep his job.
I would not disagree with you.
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