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Posted on 1/6/20 at 12:30 pm to djsdawg
The wildcat is not a snap to the "runner" (god. Did you even play football? Who writes shite like that?)
The wildcat formation is specifically and explicitly a snap to a nonQB (RB, WR, DB, etc..)
Is "runner" wrong? Only when you keep throwing QBs in there as the "runner".
And yes, Virginia. You can throw out of the wildcat formation. But because it is a nonQB taking the direct snap, over 95% of those will be runs (otherwise... you would snap the ball to the QB. And it would no longer be the wildcat formation)
I have given you multiple opportunities to correct yourself or hang yourself on this limb. Instead of correcting yourself or admitting that you were wrong, all you have proven is that your rational, reasonable, and sufficient ego cant admit when you are wrong. And your rational, reasonable, and sufficient football intellect cant even phone a friend for clarification. The wildcat isnt new. If you ever played defense in your life, you should have been coached on this version of 11 on 11 football.
I have constantly tried to correct you. But I havent buried you on your "runner" comment that you have justified in your head as correct because I expected you at a minimum to use google if you dont have any family or friends who actually played football before.
When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. Usually, someone like you on the internet is just a troll and not worth the time for this type of post. But you actually dont know better. And you actually have convinced yourself that using the term "runner" makes you correct.
I wouldnt have chirped in this thread if you didnt throw out the same "rational, reasonable" nonsense that you use to tell yourself that you arent a troll (and that for some reason allows you to ignore factual statements and reality)
The wildcat formation is specifically and explicitly a snap to a nonQB (RB, WR, DB, etc..)
Is "runner" wrong? Only when you keep throwing QBs in there as the "runner".
And yes, Virginia. You can throw out of the wildcat formation. But because it is a nonQB taking the direct snap, over 95% of those will be runs (otherwise... you would snap the ball to the QB. And it would no longer be the wildcat formation)
I have given you multiple opportunities to correct yourself or hang yourself on this limb. Instead of correcting yourself or admitting that you were wrong, all you have proven is that your rational, reasonable, and sufficient ego cant admit when you are wrong. And your rational, reasonable, and sufficient football intellect cant even phone a friend for clarification. The wildcat isnt new. If you ever played defense in your life, you should have been coached on this version of 11 on 11 football.
I have constantly tried to correct you. But I havent buried you on your "runner" comment that you have justified in your head as correct because I expected you at a minimum to use google if you dont have any family or friends who actually played football before.
When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. Usually, someone like you on the internet is just a troll and not worth the time for this type of post. But you actually dont know better. And you actually have convinced yourself that using the term "runner" makes you correct.
I wouldnt have chirped in this thread if you didnt throw out the same "rational, reasonable" nonsense that you use to tell yourself that you arent a troll (and that for some reason allows you to ignore factual statements and reality)
Posted on 1/6/20 at 12:39 pm to FooManChoo
Sorry man, but I don’t bookmark our discussions, but if you want an example of your irrational response to a Fromm miss, go to the early pages of the LSU thread.
As for the Baylor play, the pass was clearly late to the open receiver.
As for the Baylor play, the pass was clearly late to the open receiver.
Posted on 1/6/20 at 12:54 pm to meansonny
quote:
wildcat is not a snap to the "runner" (god. Did you even play football? Who writes shite like that?)
The wildcat formation is specifically and explicitly a snap to a nonQB (RB, WR, DB, etc..)
I didn’t even mention the word “wildcat” in that post.
The play call itself is all that matters to the point, so focus on that. Fields being a qb doesn’t mean he isn’t running the same plays Chubb and Sony did.
Posted on 1/6/20 at 12:54 pm to djsdawg
quote:Since you seem to be lazier than my dog, here's the game thread. Give me an example of my irrationality.
Sorry man, but I don’t bookmark our discussions, but if you want an example of your irrational response to a Fromm miss, go to the early pages of the LSU thread.
LINK
BTW, I went back through and re-read the first 17 pages and the only thing that sticks out is when I complained about the Simmons drop that would have negated all discussion about the bad throw to DRob (which was catchable, BTW, even if it was a bad throw). Several times I acknowledged that Fromm made some bad throws, including that one.
quote:Whatever, dude. Fromm had to roll out and throw on the run and the ball traveled half the length of the football field and still managed to hit the receiver between the numbers. The ball wasn't tipped or batted down; it was dropped by that open receiver. Talk about irrationality.
As for the Baylor play, the pass was clearly late to the open receiver.
This post was edited on 1/6/20 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 1/6/20 at 1:01 pm to FooManChoo
there is no point in arguing with this guy. its like arguing with a wall
Posted on 1/6/20 at 1:08 pm to DawgCountry
quote:
there is no point in arguing
There are valid points from both perspectives. Clearly a new OC and inexperienced receivers were a major factor in the decline of our passing game/entire offense. But Fromm also looked like he had regressed in terms of mechanics, missing open receivers and failure to find open receivers.
Posted on 1/6/20 at 1:14 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Give me an example of my irrationality.
This one:
quote:
Dude, just shut up. He threw a perfect pass that was flat out dropped by Simmons that would've negated the need for that pass to DRob.
And then this:
quote:
Whatever, dude. Fromm had to roll out and throw on the run and the ball traveled half the length of the football field and still managed to hit the receiver between the numbers
Timing is essential in the passing game. That’s all that was missing with his pass. Late is late and nothing else you said changes that. Just because it was accurate, on the run, and long doesn’t mean it was on time. The defender may not have touched the ball, but he certainly affected the outcome.
Posted on 1/6/20 at 1:45 pm to DawgCountry
quote:I agree that he's completely irrational and any argument with him is an act of futility. I only do it because I enjoy it, sadly
there is no point in arguing with this guy. its like arguing with a wall
Posted on 1/6/20 at 2:05 pm to GurleyGirl
Can djsdawg and Foo exchange phone numbers to argue this out already?
Posted on 1/6/20 at 2:16 pm to DawgCountry
quote:
there is no point in arguing with this guy. its like arguing with a wall
Let me guess, you also think the Baylor pass was not late? That’s foo’s idea of a rational claim.
Posted on 1/6/20 at 2:19 pm to djsdawg
Thank you for the examples of irrationality as you see it.
Example 1: Nothing irrational about that statement. The Simmons drop was a perfect example of how our season has gone. A receiver makes a mistake and causes our offense to sputter and after a head-bang emoticon, everyone moves on, but when Fromm misses, everyone loses their collective minds. It's quite the double standard.
Even so, my point was that while it was a bad throw (and I said as much), it shouldn't have even been a throw to discuss because it wouldn't have been necessary if Simmons caught his ball. What's irrational about that comment, especially given that I did fault Fromm for the throw that was off the mark?
Example 2: Nothing irrational about what I said. Whether the ball was later than it could've been is beside the point when the end result is that an open receiver was hit in the hands in the end zone and simply dropped the ball.
At this point you're nitpicking over the degree of perfection of the throw rather than whether or not the QB did enough to ensure a TD score. That example even goes against your other examples where you've complained about Fromm missing open TDs that would've resulted in TDs. That time, Fromm hit his man for a TD and the ball was dropped. If DRrob catches the ball, (almost) everyone would've been praising Fromm for a long throw on the run that hit our open receiver for a score.
The throw being "late" allowed the defender to shed a few yards of separation on the receiver, but it didn't seem to impact the play at all. DRob actually has the ball in his hands and pulls it to his chest, but as he's falling backwards, the ball comes out. If the ball being late would've impacted the play, it would have been either the defender knocking the ball away or getting his hands up to interfere with the receivers visibility, causing him to not be able to track the ball, causing him to not make the catch, but DRob actually caught the ball in his hands and was pulling it in and falling backwards when the ball came out. The obvious conclusion is that Fromm put enough on the ball and put it in a location for the WR to make a TD and the receiver simply dropped it.
Your take is the irrational one if you're blaming Fromm for the lack of points on that drive.
Example 1: Nothing irrational about that statement. The Simmons drop was a perfect example of how our season has gone. A receiver makes a mistake and causes our offense to sputter and after a head-bang emoticon, everyone moves on, but when Fromm misses, everyone loses their collective minds. It's quite the double standard.
Even so, my point was that while it was a bad throw (and I said as much), it shouldn't have even been a throw to discuss because it wouldn't have been necessary if Simmons caught his ball. What's irrational about that comment, especially given that I did fault Fromm for the throw that was off the mark?
Example 2: Nothing irrational about what I said. Whether the ball was later than it could've been is beside the point when the end result is that an open receiver was hit in the hands in the end zone and simply dropped the ball.
At this point you're nitpicking over the degree of perfection of the throw rather than whether or not the QB did enough to ensure a TD score. That example even goes against your other examples where you've complained about Fromm missing open TDs that would've resulted in TDs. That time, Fromm hit his man for a TD and the ball was dropped. If DRrob catches the ball, (almost) everyone would've been praising Fromm for a long throw on the run that hit our open receiver for a score.
quote:Late only matters if the lateness allows a defender to make a play when he shouldn't have been able to or if it causes the ball to miss the window, making the ball land behind a receiver or in a location that the receiver either can't make a play on the ball or if it makes it nearly impossible for the receiver to make a play on it.
Timing is essential in the passing game. That’s all that was missing with his pass. Late is late and nothing else you said changes that. Just because it was accurate, on the run, and long doesn’t mean it was on time. The defender may not have touched the ball, but he certainly affected the outcome.
The throw being "late" allowed the defender to shed a few yards of separation on the receiver, but it didn't seem to impact the play at all. DRob actually has the ball in his hands and pulls it to his chest, but as he's falling backwards, the ball comes out. If the ball being late would've impacted the play, it would have been either the defender knocking the ball away or getting his hands up to interfere with the receivers visibility, causing him to not be able to track the ball, causing him to not make the catch, but DRob actually caught the ball in his hands and was pulling it in and falling backwards when the ball came out. The obvious conclusion is that Fromm put enough on the ball and put it in a location for the WR to make a TD and the receiver simply dropped it.
Your take is the irrational one if you're blaming Fromm for the lack of points on that drive.
Posted on 1/6/20 at 3:00 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Example 1: Nothing irrational about that statement. The Simmons drop was a perfect example of how our season has gone. A receiver makes a mistake and causes our offense to sputter and after a head-bang emoticon, everyone moves on, but when Fromm misses, everyone loses their collective minds. It's quite the double standard.
Is it really hard to understand why? One was for a wide open TD, the other one wasnt, and it wasnt a "near perfect pass" as you put it. You should be able to talk about the TD miss without even mentioning the diving drop.
quote:
Example 2: Nothing irrational about what I said. Whether the ball was later than it could've been is beside the point when the end result is that an open receiver was hit in the hands in the end zone and simply dropped the ball.
It should have been a wide open TD pass. Robertson toasted that DB. Why was he not wide open?
Because the poor timing of the throw "allowed the defender to get back into the play and block line of sight with defenders hands.". In fact, the DB hit 16 in the helmet with his hand as he was trying to bring the ball in, which is the moment he loses it.
Its not easy to have to stop a full sprint and then backpedal and spin with a DB closing in, and then hitting your helmet. Thats anything but routine. Would have been a very good catch.
This post was edited on 1/6/20 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 1/6/20 at 3:41 pm to djsdawg
quote:It is for me. The end result is usually a stopped drive. We've had problems with our WRs all season yet some of you have refused to emphasize those problems and have chosen to trash our experienced QB who has proven his worth of the previous two seasons. The reactions have been one-sided.
Is it really hard to understand why?
quote:The primary defender on Simmons was falling down trying to make a play. If Simmons catches the ball, he might have had a shot for a TD, himself. Either way, it would've been a huge pickup that would've wiped out the later miss because it wouldn't have been thrown to begin with and there's nothing for you to complain about there.
One was for a wide open TD, the other one wasnt
And yes, the miss to DRob was bad. Fromm hits him in stride and it's likely a TD, as you stated, but DRob also let the ball go through his hands. If he catches the ball, maybe we still score on that drive and it's a different game.
Point still stands: Simmons drops a good ball and we move on. Landers doesn't keep his feet inbounds (granted, it would've been a heck of a play) and Fromm gets grilled. DRob doesn't catch the ball and it's on Fromm because he's not hit in stride. Fromm is at fault for not being precise on those deep throws that were not caught but it's interesting to see the lack of criticism for our receivers in comparison to the criticism of Fromm. We've had receivers in the past who make those catches and the outcome of the game changes. You don't want to talk about that. You just want to talk about Fromm. It's why I think you especially are intellectually dishonest.
quote:Ball traveled nearly 50 yards and landed over a defenders head into the hands of a streaking receiver. Only way it could've been better had it been an over-the-shoulder throw (would've been harder for Simmons to catch it, though). The ball was there to be caught for a huge pick up and it was dropped. Call it what you like but the throw was on the money while the receiver didn't do what he needed to do.
and it wasnt a "near perfect pass" as you put it.
quote:Context matters. Simmons makes that routine catch and then we don't even talk about the miss to DRob. But you're right that both plays stand on their own, and I've commented about them both individually.
You should be able to talk about the TD miss without even mentioning the diving drop.
quote:He was wide open at first and Fromm saw him and throw the ball. The defender had some time to catch up because the ball was lofted to make sure it wasn't overthrown, which is something you specifically have complained about a lot. In the end, it doesn't matter if he was "open" or "wide open" when the ball hits him in the hands and he's able to pull it in before dropping it. Did Fromm deliver a catchable ball for a TD? Yes, he did.
It should have been a wide open TD pass. Robertson toasted that DB. Why was he not wide open?
quote:Watch it again. DRob was tracking the ball, had his hands in the right place, caught the ball in his hands, and was pulling it to his chest before getting slapped in the helmet. That hit didn't dislodge the ball; he wasn't hit in the arm or the hands. He had possession of the ball and dropped it while he was falling down. If the defender interfered with DRrob's line of sight, it would have manifested itself with the ball going through his hands or bouncing off of him rather than hi being able to track the ball into his hands and then be able to pull it to his chest.
Because the poor timing of the throw "allowed the defender to get back into the play and block line of sight with defenders hands.". In fact, the DB hit 16 in the helmet with his hand as he was trying to bring the ball in, which is the moment he loses it.
quote:No, it wouldn't have been a "very good catch". It's a fairly routine catch by all measures. He had to slow down and back peddle. It was a quick transition from a forward run to a back peddle which he was able to do for about 5 yards and he was tracking the ball the whole way. He wasn't even hit (slapped) in the helmet until after he had possessed the ball, catching it in his hands and pulling it to his chest.
Its not easy to have to stop a full sprint and then backpedal and spin with a DB closing in, and then hitting your helmet. Thats anything but routine. Would have been a very good catch.
And you know what's not easy? Hitting a moving target 50 yards away while throwing on the run. You don't care if it's hard for Fromm because you expect him to play football and do the hard things because that's why he's playing for UGA. I just wish you'd have the same expectations of our receivers who are called to make hard catches from time to time.
Posted on 1/7/20 at 7:53 am to FooManChoo
quote:
It is for me. The end result is usually a stopped drive. We've had problems with our WRs all season yet some of you have refused to emphasize those problems and have chosen to trash our experienced QB who has proven his worth of the previous two seasons. The reactions have been one-sided.
I choose to emphasize consistently made, blatant mistakes that cost us 7 points, which is fair and reasonable.
quote:
The primary defender on Simmons was falling down trying to make a play. If Simmons catches the ball, he might have had a shot for a TD, himself.
Score how? This isn't the NFL. Simmons was diving across his body trying to make a play because the pass was off target. Still should have been caught, but a better pass doesn't force him to maneuver as he did.
quote:
He was wide open at first and Fromm saw him and throw the ball. The defender had some time to catch up because the ball was lofted to make sure it wasn't overthrown, which is something you specifically have complained about a lot. In the end, it doesn't matter if he was "open" or "wide open" when the ball hits him in the hands and he's able to pull it in before dropping it. Did Fromm deliver a catchable ball for a TD? Yes, he did.
Catchable and good can clearly be 2 different things.
He was open for a long time. I haven't complained about Fromm's lack of loft at all. If anything, that loft was too much, or did Fromm just recognize how open 16 was too late? Combo?
quote:
Watch it again. DRob was tracking the ball, had his hands in the right place, caught the ball in his hands, and was pulling it to his chest before getting slapped in the helmet. That hit didn't dislodge the ball; he wasn't hit in the arm or the hands. He had possession of the ball and dropped it while he was falling down. If the defender interfered with DRrob's line of sight, it would have manifested itself with the ball going through his hands or bouncing off of him rather than hi being able to track the ball into his hands and then be able to pull it to his chest.
It manifested itself in him not cleanly securing the ball at first, and then when he is trying to "look the ball in" to ensure it is caught, he was hit in his helmet, which affected both his vision and his grip. Still should have been caught, but Fromm made is much harder than it should have been. The defender never should have been close enough to affect the play in such a manner.
quote:
It's a fairly routine catch by all measures. He had to slow down and back peddle.
Routine for what? Thats not routine for a deep post route or a fly at all.
quote:
And you know what's not easy? Hitting a moving target 50 yards away while throwing on the run. You don't care if it's hard for Fromm because you expect him to play football and do the hard things because that's why he's playing for UGA. I just wish you'd have the same expectations of our receivers who are called to make hard catches from time to time.
Of course it aint easy, but I expect those throws to be made by proven elite level QB's, and it was simply way too late. Fromm has made that type throw on time before, so no need for you to excuse it.
Posted on 1/7/20 at 7:59 am to GurleyGirl
quote:
e had regressed in terms of mechanics,
Well we know it wasn't the QB coach since he had the same as the previous year and had a good year. Failure to find open receivers *could* be the result of inexperienced receivers not getting open, no?
Posted on 1/7/20 at 9:06 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
Well we know it wasn't the QB coach since he had the same as the previous year and had a good year. Failure to find open receivers *could* be the result of inexperienced receivers not getting open, no?
Don’t ask her shite she doesn’t understand dude. That wasn’t covered in the echo chamber.
Posted on 1/7/20 at 11:26 am to djsdawg
quote:And yet you emphasize Fromm's throw to DRob instead of his drop that cost us seven points. Funny how that works with you.
I choose to emphasize consistently made, blatant mistakes that cost us 7 points, which is fair and reasonable.
quote:Simmons most certainly didn't "dive" for that ball. He fell down trying to pick up the ball as it was going through his hands. And the throw was away from the defenders. Simmons adjusted just fine, he just couldn't pull it in like he should have.
Score how? This isn't the NFL. Simmons was diving across his body trying to make a play because the pass was off target. Still should have been caught, but a better pass doesn't force him to maneuver as he did.
quote:True, but the ball was good enough. It wasn't like DRob had to make some acrobatic catch, leave his feet, or make some sort of crazy move to catch the ball. He just had to turn around. For college football, that was a routine catch.
Catchable and good can clearly be 2 different things.
quote:Not the loft, the overthrow. He tried to throw flat balls all season that weren't tracking well with the receivers' routes and he put noticeably more air under the ball against Baylor to accommodate.
He was open for a long time. I haven't complained about Fromm's lack of loft at all. If anything, that loft was too much, or did Fromm just recognize how open 16 was too late? Combo?
And DRob wasn't open "for a long time". He got a step on his man and Fromm recognized it and threw the ball. Maybe you haven't noticed but it takes a while for the ball to travel 50+ yards through the air when you put some touch on it. It was enough time for the defender to close ground but not enough time to make a real play on the ball. Fromm did his job and DRob didn't. Plain and simple.
quote:Do you read what you write before you click the 'submit' button? I'm not sure you do.
It manifested itself in him not cleanly securing the ball at first, and then when he is trying to "look the ball in" to ensure it is caught, he was hit in his helmet, which affected both his vision and his grip.
You really think that the lack of ball security was the result of the throw? You really think that after he caught the ball, the drop during the transition to the ground was the result of vision and grip issues due to the slap? I don't even know how to respond to that nonsense
Clearly DRob shouldn't be playing college football if he's not physical enough to secure a ball already in his hands while being slapped in the helmet.
quote:Maybe you've been watching too many Fields highlights this season where he was throwing to receivers with no one around them for 10 yards but throwing a ball 50+ yards on the run and hitting the receiver in the hands/chest in the end zone is not making it "much harder than it should have been" when the closest defender isn't close enough to make contact with the ball or the receiver until after the ball is caught. If only you held our receivers to the same standard of execution as you hold Fromm to.
Still should have been caught, but Fromm made is much harder than it should have been. The defender never should have been close enough to affect the play in such a manner.
quote:I'm talking about routine for a catch, not a route. Any route may result in having to adjust to the ball but a routine catch is any standard catch that doesn't require going above and beyond to make it. He didn't have to dive at the ball. He didn't have to catch it off a deflection. He didn't have to try a one-handed catch. He didn't have to contort himself. He didn't even have to high-point the ball. All he had to do was turn around and trot backwards for a few yards and hold out his hands in front of his body. DRob had the distance. He had the angle. He had free space to make the catch. He even caught the ball, he just didn't secure it to the ground.
Routine for what? Thats not routine for a deep post route or a fly at all.
quote:Even NFL QBs don't make the throws you're expecting of Fromm every time. That's why the WR talent is expected to support the QBs in the NFL. In this case, Fromm didn't even have to rely on a Godwin one-hander in the end zone. He delivered and easily catchable ball to an open receiver more than half the distance of the football field away and it should've been caught without any sort of "great catch" being made. Fromm did his job to get us a TD and DRob didn't.
Of course it aint easy, but I expect those throws to be made by proven elite level QB's, and it was simply way too late. Fromm has made that type throw on time before, so no need for you to excuse it.
Also it wasn't "way too late". It hit the receiver in time to be caught without fighting off a defender. It was "late" because it had to travel so far, but it was still on time enough for an uncontested catch. He just needed to secure the ball to the ground and we would've had seven points.
Posted on 1/9/20 at 7:37 am to FooManChoo
quote:
And yet you emphasize Fromm's throw to DRob instead of his drop that cost us seven points. Funny how that works with you.
Probably because Fromm has consistently struggled to hit Robertson on time on open deep passes.
quote:
Not the loft, the overthrow. He tried to throw flat balls all season that weren't tracking well with the receivers' routes and he put noticeably more air under the ball against Baylor to accommodate.
And DRob wasn't open "for a long time". He got a step on his man and Fromm recognized it and threw the ball. Maybe you haven't noticed but it takes a while for the ball to travel 50+ yards through the air when you put some touch on it. It was enough time for the defender to close ground but not enough time to make a real play on the ball. Fromm did his job and DRob didn't. Plain and simple.
Thats classic Foo Frommbot spin. This is an objective and reasonable view of the play, From the QB Klassroom article:
"From a comfort and mechanics standpoint, throwing on the move doesn’t really get much easier than this. b]Fromm does a poor job of getting any velocity on this ball.[/b] He puts some air under it and floats it just far enough to make it catchable, but the ball hangs more like a punt than a pass and forces the receiver to try to catch this one while falling backwards. This ball, similar to the last clip, had a chance to be a relatively easy touchdown, but Fromm couldn’t put enough on it. In fairness to Fromm, this should have been caught anyway, but there is no argument that this was a good ball. Fromm failed his receiver as much as the receiver failed him."
quote:
I'm talking about routine for a catch, not a route.
quote:
quote:
hitting the receiver in the hands/chest in the end zone is not making it "much harder than it should have been"
What is considered "Routine" for a catch depends on the route and coverage. Going from a full sprint to a backpedal spin to wait on a ball is far from routine on that route. The defender went from out of the play to into the play to catch up after he was burnt toast. That type of transition and coverage made it far more difficult than a well timed, wide open, over the shoulder catch.
quote:
Simmons most certainly didn't "dive" for that ball. He fell down trying to pick up the ball as it was going through his hands. And the throw was away from the defenders. Simmons adjusted just fine, he just couldn't pull it in like he should have.
Ball was not placed in the spot it needed to be for a TD. It was under thrown, as usual.
Another under throw was the pickens throw vs Baylor. From the Klassroom article:
"Wide receiver George Pickens is so open that the ball finds its target anyway, but Fromm left this one about five yards short and put no speed on it. If he could have gotten this ball even one step further out in front, this could have been a touchdown."
"It’s wasted and unfulfilled opportunities like that that makes Fromm frustrating. Even with a clean pocket and a wide-open receiver, Fromm only gets the completion on a play that should have fairly easily been a touchdown. "
Posted on 1/9/20 at 8:14 am to Sandwich
Glad the coaching changes got hashed out in here 
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