re: Gripefest (Formly know as Coaching Changes)

Possibly an old pic if I had to guess?

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GATA Dawgs posted it on twitter less than an hour ago with a pic if him?

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I can't imagine anyone being excited with that even if it was the case.

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I get it man. There has been some over the top Fromm bashing...some of us have just been calling a spade a spade. If the receiver runs a poor route or drops a pass, that’s on the receiver and we yell about the receiver. If Jake throws it 10 yards over the receivers head or 2 yards behind them, that’s on Jake. You just haven’t been willing to accept that ANYTHING was on Jake...even if you grudgingly have to admit it was a bad throw, you STILL put a qualifier on it.

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That's not true. I'll add a qualifier when I feel it's necessary or if I'm unsure about where the fault lies. It's not always so easy to pinpoint the root cause of a problem, especially in football. When it's an obvious bad throw, I generally say as much. When it's unclear why the result was bad, I'll hedge on what I saw vs. what has usually been the case until I get more information.

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I think all any of us is asking for here is a little intellectual honesty in the fact that you are just going to defend Fromm no matter what and to have you stop trying to convince us all that your defense is 100% logical and reasonable. You are admitting your defense is a reactive response which by definition means that it’s emotionally motivated.

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I believe I'm being intellectually honest by pointing out there is more to football than what the QB does with the football. I believe it is intellectually dishonest to ignore everything else in order to have one throat to choke, so to speak.

And no, I won't defend Fromm "no matter what". When there's a throw that's off the mark, I'll say so. Just because there may be a good reason why the throw is off the mark doesn't mean I won't agree that it's off. That said, I think it's wrong to highlight mistakes by Fromm when mistakes by receivers go unnoticed in discussion here. If others were honest about the state of our offense as a whole this season, there wouldn't have been as many anti-Fromm threads and legitimate criticisms of Fromm could be made without issue, even from me.

Whether my reactions are emotionally motivated or not is of no concern since motivation isn't the issue but whether the arguments, themselves, are emotional in nature (which they aren't), even though that's not entirely true that my reactions are emotionally motivated in the first place. I believe they are primarily intellectually motivated because I hate to see people spreading lies and false accusations because they are ignorant or unwilling to see past their narrow view of what they are looking at. If anything, my response has been based on my sense of justice than an emotional reaction to attacks on a player I like; I don't like to see people unfairly accused of incompetence when the fault isn't theirs, entirely or otherwise.

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I downvote very rarely on anything that targets me specifically. It cries out insecurity and a support of cancel culture. Debate like a grownup without using the downvote to put your emotions on display for the whole board to see that you are triggered.

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Upvotes and downvotes exist for people to provide opinions without the necessity to justify those opinions. I, however, almost always back up my criticisms with a response, like I'm doing now. I don't subscribe to cancel culture and I don't wish to see people kicked off the forum simply for getting a number of downvotes. If you're concerned about that, perhaps there is some insecurity on your part, but I honestly don't care if my posts are upvoted or downvoted. I use that feature because others care about it.

With that, I don't downvote just anything. I usually only do that for a particularly bad post or if I'm being specifically called out in an unfair way. If you choose not to do that, that's up to you and more power to you, but since others do care about that, I use it to show my approval or disapproval of a post, which is the point of that feature. If you don't like that feature, feel free to lobby your position on the help forum.

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I’ve said before and fib said it earlier today, I like you as a poster...it’s just been a weird, surreal ride this season watching you bitterly defend poor QB play by Jake to the level of seeming like a battered wife.

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I'm sorry you feel that way and if others here weren't so irrational with their attacks, I wouldn't have been so vocal with my defense. I hate to see such irrational displays on this forum which are directed at our players and coaches. If you have a good reason to be displeased, by all means share it, but if you are attacking others without sufficient reason, expect some push back from me. Many here have been attacking others just because they are frustrated with the output of the offense, and while being frustrated is fine, throwing out blame incorrectly isn't. That's why debate exists and that what I'm trying to do.

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I have criticized the WRs for not running good routes all season, as well as Fromm for bad throws. But the route running in the Sugar Bowl was very good. Crisp turns to create space, and Simmons and Pickens had some good comebacks (what we called button-hooks in the old days) for completions. I give them (and Fromm) a B+ for the game. Had Robertson held on to that end zone pass it would be A-.

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Button hooks, hooks and just curls. I remember them being called all of these things!

I agree with your assessments, too.

Downvote was not from me, Foo. I gave an upvote. You took the time to address my whole post. I don’t agree with every point you made but can respectfully agree to disagree.

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you have a good reason to be displeased, by all means share it, but if you are attacking others without sufficient reason, expect some push back from me

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The problem is you also attack even when the complaints are rational, reasonable and sufficient.

Just about every time you and I interact when I mention a bad miss by Fromm.

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Just about every time you and I interact when I mention a bad miss by Fromm.

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I'll still need an example because I'd argue that most of the accusations you've made are unreasonable for the very fact they they exclude a lot of necessary information and context and the reasonableness of your arguments is what is in question.

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love your rational, reasonable and sufficient definition if wildcat. You just make shite up to fit your narrative and classify it as rational, reasonable, and sufficient.

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Fields and Sony both “ran Designed runs on direct snaps to the runner”.

Go ahead and explain how that’s wrong. You didn’t even try to do so last time.

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still need an example because I'd argue that most of the accusations you've made are unreasonable for the very fact they they exclude a lot of necessary information and context and the reasonableness of your arguments is what is in question.

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When Fromm badly misses an open td pass, there is no other necessary info or context missing in regards to the play in question.