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re: SEC Champ 2018
Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:28 pm to Irons Puppet
Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:28 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
You will win with a great passing game and a good running game or a good running and great Defense. But the QB is the key to College Football success . School should be paying top dollars for a good QB Coach instead of millions on a flashy OC.
A QB is essential to a team's success, obviously. His job is to direct the offense, which is close to half the sport (I say 'close to' to give special teams their due without assigning them a full 1/3rd of the sport.) But a team can win with a mediocre passing game just as easily as they can win with a mediocre running game. The Tua example actually proves that -- Bama won 13 games and reached the CFPNCG with Hurts as a starter. The fact that they needed Tua to pull it out in the end doesn't change the fact that Hurts was more than capable of winning enough to put them in that position in the first place. If he wasn't, Tua would have been starting early in the season.
There are just too many factors involved to reduce it to such terms. The fact that college teams aren't carbon clones of each other makes that obvious -- some coaches win one way, other coaches win another way, which is why I used Urban and Saban as my examples instead of Saban and Dabo or Smart. And the "Bama talent" argument doesn't hold water when Bama had to play and beat teams that also possessed deep reservoirs of talent.
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Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:38 pm to randomways
Hurts failed twice to get them there. You have to be able to pass to win big in College Football today. Bama compensated Hurts limitations with talent. OU compensated their D with BM. UF couldn’t compensate their lack of QB play. UGA compensated a freshman QB with 2600 yard RBs and an easy SECE. That is College football today.
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:40 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
Yes, you have to be able to rush the ball, but it is now a QB League (same as the NFL).
Really? With the exception of 2016, I am trying to think of a team that did not have an excellent running game that was simply complimented by a passing game that won the National Championship.
However, lets assume you are right. Wouldn't that be concerning to Auburn? I mean, when was the last time Auburn relied on the passing game instead of the running game? We all know that Gus' offense is always run firs, and has always relied on the running game.
quote:So you think the key to Alabama's success has been their QB's?
You can not win big with just a good QB, you need a good Defense (see AU 2014). But it is a QB league now.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:42 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
The stars aligned for them last year until the Tua pass, it was a very fragile run that wouldn’t have taken much to derail.
Really? Outside of Oklahoma, which of our wins were close?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:49 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
Hurts failed twice to get them there. You have to be able to pass to win big in College Football today. Bama compensated Hurts limitations with talent. OU compensated their D with BM. UF couldn’t compensate their lack of QB play. UGA compensated a freshman QB with 2600 yard RBs and an easy SECE. That is College football today
He got them to the game twice. Your argument seems to literally be "You have to be able to pass to win the national title game, but not before." Do you see why it's coming across that way?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:52 pm to randomways
quote:
And the "Bama talent" argument doesn't hold water when Bama had to play and beat teams that also possessed deep reservoirs of talent.
It always "holds water" Exactly who did they play aND
beat the last 4 years that had a higher blue chip ratio
or more 1st and 2nd Rd draft picks?
Why do Bama fans continually dismiss this as factor in Saban's success? Talent is a bigger factor now than it has ever been because of limited practice hours
AND the fact that many of them leave after 3 years.
You HAVE to bring in highly talented guys and they must be ready to play asap.
The difference in the NC was Bama's talent edge on the LOS on both sides of the ball.Not that complicated.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 1:56 pm to DawgsLife
quote:Hell NO! But Iron's going to tell you that Alabama's sustained success has been due to the poor QB play in the entire conference over the past 11 seasons. He'll regurgitate that Bama's success a direct result of the QB competition they've played.
So you think the key to Alabama's success has been their QB's?
Ignore the fact that Alabama has been on a never before seen run the last decade, it's a "QB League".
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:04 pm to DawgsLife
ND, UA and blowout by AU.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:05 pm to RT1941
When UA lost, it was to a better than average QB.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:05 pm to randomways
quote:
There are just too many factors involved to reduce it to such terms.
Agree to disagree. SEC Champs
2017 UGA 42 rushing TDs. Led the conference.
2016 Bama 33 rushing TDs. Tied for lead in the conference.
2015 Bama 33 rushing TDs. 2nd in conference.
2014 Bama 35 rushing TDs. 2nd in conference.
2013 Auburn 48 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2012 Bama 37 rushing TDs. 2nd in conference.
2011 LSU 35 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2010 Auburn 41 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2009 Bama 31 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2008 Florida 42 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
You might say that it can't all be about running the football when it matters despite the opponents gameplan to shut down your running game. And you are right.
Rushing Defense for touchdowns allowed is important too.
Auburn tied Bama for the lead in rushing TDs in 2016. But were 3rd in conference for defensive rushing TDs allowed.
2015. LSU led Bama in rushing TDs in 2015. But LSU was 8th in the conference in rushing TDs allowed.
2014. Georgia was 1st in rushing TDs. But on defense, UGA was 10th in rushing TDs allowed.
2012 Texas A&M was 1st in rushing TDs. But on defense, they were 9th in rushing TDs allowed.
Both sides of the ball matters.
So where does this leave a passing attack when it comes to winning the conference? Too many bad things happen when you go back to pass in college football (these kids aren't permitted the hours like they get in the pro-s. The skills and timing with the offense isn't refined yet). You are much more likely to get an INT, sack, or holding call than a passing TD. It is why teams that are pass happy rarely find themselves in the SECCG.
The only QBs that really affect the game in a big way are running QBs (Matthews, Newton, Tebow, Manziel). The passing element isn't that important. When Auburn's Johnson can't run to protect Stidham, you see Stidham without accuracy, throwing INTs, and getting sacked a ton. That's college football in the SEC and it affects every QB that can't create with his legs (i.e. running QB).
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:13 pm to randomways
quote:
And the "Bama talent" argument doesn't hold water when Bama had to play and beat teams that also possessed deep reservoirs of talent.
Bama winning 26 games with hurts at qb proves it does hold water. No one has had close to Bama talent in the sec for years.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:14 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
ND, UA and blowout by AU.
ND works. but the other two was not what I asked. We lost those games and still played for the National Championship. You said our season could have easily been derailed. No it couldn't. We blew everybody out except Notre Dame in the games we won. South Carolina came closest (besides ND) and we beat them by 2 TD's.
This after our 1st string QB went down with an injury. If Fromm had had more experience there is a good chance we would have beaten ND by 2 or more TD's. We had the opportunity. We dropped one TD pass, and had another pass that should have gone for a TD, but our receiver was tackled preventing a completion. It was PI that was not called.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:34 pm to meansonny
quote:
So you think Tennessee will get a touchdown this year?
Just think, if UGA wins this coming season they will move to a .500 record against UT.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:37 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Bama winning 26 games with hurts at qb proves it does hold water. No one has had close to Bama talent in the sec for years.
Huh? The SEC fields multiple teams in the top 10 in recruiting every year. UGA, LSU, and Auburn all pull in top 10 talent regularly. TAMU isn't far behind. UF used to. The difference between a #1 class and a #10 class is relatively small. "Close to" is a subjective metric, but the talent gap between Bama and certain other SEC programs (plus programs outside like Clemson, who has played Bama 3 times in 3 years, FSU, OSU, etc) isn't nearly as large as people think. I guarantee you that the four and five stars on other teams consider themselves perfectly capable of taking on the four and five stars on Bama. Now, whether their coaches think the same about taking on Saban is another issue...
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:40 pm to meansonny
quote:
Agree to disagree. SEC Champs
2017 UGA 42 rushing TDs. Led the conference.
2016 Bama 33 rushing TDs. Tied for lead in the conference.
2015 Bama 33 rushing TDs. 2nd in conference.
2014 Bama 35 rushing TDs. 2nd in conference.
2013 Auburn 48 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2012 Bama 37 rushing TDs. 2nd in conference.
2011 LSU 35 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2010 Auburn 41 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2009 Bama 31 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
2008 Florida 42 rushing TDs. 1st in conference.
You are taking one stat and running with it. Show me a stat were it shows all these champions were in the lower 50% as passing teams (then you might have a argument). Six of those champs played to their Defenses, so they ran the ball against mostly inferior team (padding the stat). In close games it was usually the pass that was the difference. The two close Championship Games were:
2008: Tebow making passes
2012: McCarron and Murray making passes.
They rest were pretty one sided games.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:49 pm to randomways
quote:
The SEC fields multiple teams in the top 10 in recruiting every year. UGA, LSU, and Auburn all pull in top 10 talent regularly. T
Sure the sec does and yet Bama still has a major talent advantage over them. The difference between Bama and the rest is wide. There can be Major differences between a number 1 class and a top 10 class.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:49 pm to apiratelifeforme
quote:
wins this coming season they will move to a .500 record against UT.
Impressive after the 90’s.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:00 pm to randomways
quote:
Huh? The SEC fields multiple teams in the top 10 in recruiting every year.
Such garbage comparing schools that might be lucky to have a top 5 one year and 3 others in the top 10 (maybe) to a school that has four CONSECUTIVE #1 classes.Can you not tell the difference?Is it THAT difficult??
quote:
but the talent gap between Bama and certain other SEC programs (plus programs outside like Clemson, who has played Bama 3 times in 3 years, FSU, OSU, etc) isn't nearly as large as people think
It is and here is a list of players drafted from SEC schools the last 4 years...you guys also had MULTIPLE #2'sources beyond the #1's
quote:
Alabama 32 - 8 # 1's
Florida 26 - 6 # 1's
LSU 26 - 4 # 1'S
AUBURN 16 - 2 # 1's
Missouri 14 - 2 # 1's
Georgia 13 - 2 # 1's
UT 10 - 2 # 1's
Arkansas 17
Have no idea why guys won't admit or acknowledge this when the evidence is overwhelming.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:06 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
You are taking one stat and running with it.
That one stat sure is consistent. Isn't it? Even for Auburn's best teams.
Would you believe that the state holds up in conference play? The best rush defense and rush offense in conference play (eliminating a lot of cupcakes) still wins the conference.
quote:
In close games it was usually the pass that was the difference.
You are trying to hang your hat on one play in this situation or one play in that situation. But the reality is that no team throws well enough consistently to be able to avoid the pass rush unless their QB provides that dual threat and can create opportunities outside the pocket. Top SEC defenses are too good when they can pin their ears back and attack the quarterback without regard for the running game.
Your theory implies that Hurts and Fromm are great because they led their teams to the NCG.
Your theory implies that Hurts may be among the greatest because he led his team in back to back years.
Your theory implies that Jake Coker is great.
Or that Blake Sims is great.
Or that Nick Marshall should be playing quarterback in the NFL.
Or that the combination of Jarrett Lee and Jordan Jefferson is one of the best dual threats in college football lore.
Or that Greg McElroy is great.
Or that Tim Tebow shouldn't be playing minor league baseball right now.
These quarterbacks may all be considered good. But the only one who could be considered great throwing the football also happened to lead his team in rush attempts (264), yards (1473), & rushing TDs (20).
It's the running game. It always has been.
I'm still waiting on a taker for the ban bet.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:21 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
It is and here is a list of players drafted from SEC schools the last 4 years...you guys also had MULTIPLE #2'sources beyond the #1's
quote:
Alabama 32 - 8 # 1's
Florida 26 - 6 # 1's
LSU 26 - 4 # 1'S
AUBURN 16 - 2 # 1's
Missouri 14 - 2 # 1's
Georgia 13 - 2 # 1's
UT 10 - 2 # 1's
Arkansas 17
Have no idea why guys won't admit or acknowledge this when the evidence is overwhelming.
My guys are Vandy. We don't recruit, we scavenge.
But you do know what development is, right?
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