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re: If Nick Saban never goes to Alabama, do we have all the "death of college football" talk?
Posted on 5/6/22 at 10:00 am to GetBackToWork
Posted on 5/6/22 at 10:00 am to GetBackToWork
quote:
I think college football would be better in a different media environment
another thing I 100% agree on. Todays' generation of youth has gronw up with a phone in their hand their whole lives and is accostuemd to INSTANT, RIGHT NOW satisfaction. It's why the portal exists and why thousands of kids enter it every year. They've always been coddled and aren't used to being told no or having to earn things they want. But to get back to the main point, the Sugar Bowl (and hell, a lot of bowls) used to be a BIG deal. It was a point of pride to win the sugar bowl. Now only teh playoffs matter...why? From 98-13 only the BCS title game "mattered" int eh way of crownign a champ but all the other bowls were still enormous. Now they aren't. It's because the media has given in to this generation's overall mindset and basically told them that if you aren't in the playoffs you've failed and have nothing to play for anymore.
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Posted on 5/6/22 at 10:22 am to WG_Dawg
The only negative directly traceable to Saban is coaching salary inflation. Every coach in college football should send him a Christmas card with an Applebee's gift card every year.
Saban earned every dime he was paid...but it forced other schools to give ridiculous contracts to unproven and, usually, underperforming coaches in the hopes they could at least stay within view of Alabama. The skyrocketing dollars forked over by dumb ADs and school admins made it difficult to argue players shouldn't cash in beyond the cost of attendance scholarship... especially in the perceived "equity" climate of today. Coaches don't give a crap about players getting paid...they just want the microscope off their ridiculous salaries.
Saban earned every dime he was paid...but it forced other schools to give ridiculous contracts to unproven and, usually, underperforming coaches in the hopes they could at least stay within view of Alabama. The skyrocketing dollars forked over by dumb ADs and school admins made it difficult to argue players shouldn't cash in beyond the cost of attendance scholarship... especially in the perceived "equity" climate of today. Coaches don't give a crap about players getting paid...they just want the microscope off their ridiculous salaries.
This post was edited on 5/6/22 at 10:25 am
Posted on 5/6/22 at 10:40 am to RollTide1987
I don't think Saban's dominance hurt the game. It's fun to try to overthrow the empire. Stupidity and pussification ruined the game.
Stupidity because no one with a brain would have thought NIL and the transfer portal would play well together. Either was fine...but not both.
Pussification because modern rule changes that make it a penalty to hit someone make it impossible to play defense. Fear used to be like a 12th defender. New offensive records every single season make the game less interesting IMO.
Stupidity because no one with a brain would have thought NIL and the transfer portal would play well together. Either was fine...but not both.
Pussification because modern rule changes that make it a penalty to hit someone make it impossible to play defense. Fear used to be like a 12th defender. New offensive records every single season make the game less interesting IMO.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 10:45 am to Chad4Bama
quote:
The only negative directly traceable to Saban is coaching salary inflation.
That started at LSU when we made a little known coach from Michigan State the 3rd highest paid coach in the country at $1.2 million. People thought we were nuts.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 10:49 am to RollTide1987
Portal and NIL are independent of Saban. These two things are what is killing CFB
Posted on 5/6/22 at 11:06 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
I think CFB will really get more fun again once the pac12 and ACC get their friggin shite together.
I'm not really sure how realistic this is. Between changing population/demographics, the explosion in money/salaries, and the general de-emphasis of football on the West Coast (see Pac 12's joke of a covid season and California allowing the Rose Bowl to be played in Texas) leads me to believe these changes are permanent.
One thing that college teams did in response to Saban is start spending exorbitant amounts of money on new facilities, expanded coaching staffs, and expanded recruiting budgets as an attempt to keep up. Once this started happening, the gap started widening between the haves and the have-nots, IMO.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 11:21 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
Saban's run at alabama has essentially squeezed the life and fun out of most fans' enjoyment of the game.
Why? 95% just pulling that out of my arse, it's probably higher) of college fans would never see their teams win a national title even if we were still under the old system. It's the whole "championship or bust" mentality that is the problem. I blame ESPN and the playoffs for that.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 11:24 am to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
Why? 95% just pulling that out of my arse, it's probably higher) of college fans would never see their teams win a national title even if we were still under the old system.
that's true, but at least pre-saban the power players changed every couple years. It wasn't the same team for a decade.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 11:27 am to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
I blame ESPN and the playoffs for that.
Social media and a transient society plays a huge role in this too.
In 1990, if you were a Michigan alum working in Chicago, most people you'd run into on a daily basis were Ohio State, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc... graduates. Winning the Rose Bowl was ultimate bragging rights and the main goal.
In 2022, if you're a Michigan alum working in Chicago, you're just as likely to run into Alabama, Oklahoma, Florida State, Georgia, LSU, Texas, etc... graduates. Bragging about your Rose Bowl win rings hollow when your coworkers are bragging about national championships.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 11:29 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
another thing I 100% agree on. Todays' generation of youth has gronw up with a phone in their hand their whole lives and is accostuemd to INSTANT, RIGHT NOW satisfaction. It's why the portal exists and why thousands of kids enter it every year. They've always been coddled and aren't used to being told no or having to earn things they want. But to get back to the main point, the Sugar Bowl (and hell, a lot of bowls) used to be a BIG deal. It was a point of pride to win the sugar bowl. Now only teh playoffs matter...why? From 98-13 only the BCS title game "mattered" int eh way of crownign a champ but all the other bowls were still enormous. Now they aren't. It's because the media has given in to this generation's overall mindset and basically told them that if you aren't in the playoffs you've failed and have nothing to play for anymore.
I dont know that its just that. TV's are so much nicer and really not that expensive these days. Heck, some dudes can get their man cave set up with a mini fridge, and 3 or 4 TV's for less than season tickets. The ability to host from home and get a good experience and not fight traffic for less $ have made fans not want to go. Obviously going and being there is person is a much better memory, but why spend the effort.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 11:30 am to Beessnax
quote:
Sure he is a great coach and has had a remarkable run, but he didn't invent the game.
No, but he did turn the recruiting aspect into something else entirely and he more than any coach in college football history turned the coach into a multi-million dollar investment.
Alabama players were getting NIL style deals before NIL existed. Alabama was building shangrila recruiting palaces while rival programs were still trying to get their own practice fields. Alabama was selling NFL prep while most programs were still selling atmosphere and academics. They weren't the first, but they were the first on that level. Throw in massive television deals and the shift away from live attendance, and everything became about hiring "the next Saban" for most larger programs, especially in the SEC. There's never been more turnover, higher coaching salaries, investment in facilities, perks as since around the 2010s or so. Now with NIL, it's just going to get more ridiculous and I fear it may parallel NASCAR... moving away from a loyal enthusiastic audience to a fickle and unknown one.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 1:51 pm to AUCom96
quote:Until About the turn of the century NASCAR was strickly a "Southern thing." All the teams were based in the South, nearly all the drivers were from the South, and with very few exceptions, the races took place in the South. Now that NASCAR has gone national the culture of it has been watered down. It's led to a lot of apathy toward the sport even though the drivers themselves might be more skilled than in the past.
There's never been more turnover, higher coaching salaries, investment in facilities, perks as since around the 2010s or so. Now with NIL, it's just going to get more ridiculous and I fear it may parallel NASCAR... moving away from a loyal enthusiastic audience to a fickle and unknown one.
As the more successful programs in the SEC, or any other conferences for that matter, seem to have gotten better as they have stretched their recruiting bases to encompass the entire nation. Yea, Georgia, and Alabama are the 2 best programs right now, and they both have done it by going all over the country to recruit; Add in NIL and the Portal and you severely reduce the emotional ties between the players and the fans. With each passing day, CFB is getting more like that league I stopped watching about 25 years ago.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 1:59 pm to RollTide1987
quote:Yes because if he were still at LSU, he'd have 9 national titles.
If Nick Saban never goes to Alabama, do we have all the "death of college football" talk?
Posted on 5/6/22 at 3:04 pm to RollTide1987
I think so. Saban is an outstanding coach, but he's not the only reason for Alabama's success. He just hastened an outcome created by pre-existing conditions, which in large part, still don't receive much attention. I mean, he only had one national championship before Alabama, while Alabama owned multiple without him. The system is geared to benefit certain schools more and Saban has benefitted from that.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 3:18 pm to Bama Bird
Yep
Miami, t.u, Mich
Miami, t.u, Mich
Posted on 5/6/22 at 3:20 pm to redeye
quote:
Saban is an outstanding coach, but he's not the only reason for Alabama's success
of course not, they are a premiere blue blood of the sport. I don't think it can be understated though that when you pair that kind of program with what has turend out to be the best coach in the history of cfb it leads to this.
Alabama was a top 3 all time program prior to saban but people forget that they werent' exactly ligting up the world during this time (it seems like so long ago..). Look at their history post-bear:
perkins- so so record, no natties
curry- pretty godo record, no natties
stallings - good record, 1 natty in 7 yeras
dubose- 4 yeras, mediocre, no natties
fran- 2 years, ok record, no natties
shula- 4 years, alright, no natties
That's about 25 years of coaching with a single national title and a whole lot of meh in there. The alabama program speaks for itself but let's not act like they were on cruise control.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 3:35 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Saban's run at alabama has essentially squeezed the life and fun out of most fans' enjoyment of the game.
Did it squeeze the fun out of last year for you guys? LSU, Auburn, Clemson (twice), Fla. State, and UGA have won natty's while Saban was at UA. And if anyone had listened to him there would be no transfer portal or wide open NIL. There are other coaches that can recruit and develop players at a high level, what sets Saban apart is his ability to adapt and adjust over time as things change. The difference between our style of play prior to Blake Simms vs now is truly incredible as is his ability to use the portal to his advantage even though he doesn't like it.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 3:35 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
And obviously it's nobody's fault and nobody has done anythign wrong. I'm not saying we need to point fingers anywhere. I'm just saying bama winning the title every year or every other year is boring.
That's because of this weird "you win it all or none of it matters" mentality a lot of fans and schools have adopted.
Baseball was in its heyday when the Yankees were winning every other World Series. People didn't stop going to MLB games just because New York was winning the most. The NBA didn't fall apart during the Lakers, Celtics or Bulls dynasties.
This "my team must win it all or there's no point" is a new concept; dynasties are not.
Posted on 5/6/22 at 3:39 pm to Tideroller
quote:
Did it squeeze the fun out of last year for you guys? LSU, Auburn, Clemson (twice), Fla. State, and UGA have won natty's while Saban was at UA
you missed the point entirely. It's that they are a mainstay that are there eveyr year, which is boring.
09- won
10-down year
11- won
12- won
13- contention until last regular season game
14- made playoffs, didn't win
15- made playoffs, won
16- made playoffs, didn't win
17- made playoffs, won
18- made playoffs, didn't win
19- missed playoffs
20- made playoffs, won
21- made playoffs, didn't win
if you can't see how a normal average joe CFB fan would get tired of this, I dont' know what to tell ya
Posted on 5/6/22 at 3:40 pm to skrayper
quote:
Baseball was in its heyday when the Yankees were winning every other World Series.
baseball is differnet though, it's not a contact sport. With football if you've got bigger faster stronger guys, you're going to beat the other team 90% of the time.
But i agree with your overall point though for sure
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