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re: Hiring Unproven Coaches
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:50 am to TOSOV
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:50 am to TOSOV
quote:
and not hard for him to recruit well either as 2 major recruiting rivals are looking for new coaches.
He kept a good '16 class together and pulled a top 3 in '17...long before McElwain or Butch were in trouble.
This post was edited on 11/2/17 at 7:55 am
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Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:51 am to Tigerman97
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It escapes me why anyone would think any school can pull a proven coach.
Money. Michigan gave Harbaugh $9 million or $10 million, so that's one way/reason a coach would switch. You get $9 million a year for three years, then get fired with another $9million buyout......you wouldn't go to another school? I don't necessarily mean go after a Urban Meyer....but even LSU went after Fisher and Herman.
The thing is we are talking about the difference in taking an unproven assistant coach, or coach at a very small school over a coach from TCU, Houston or some other mid tier program.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:54 am to DawgsLife
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Money. Michigan gave Harbaugh $9 million or $10 million, so that's one way/reason a coach would switch.
... and that doesn't look like the wisest investment at the moment.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:55 am to thunderbird1100
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Teams dont just hire away successful big school coaches anymore really. So not sure why this is a thread. You go after assistants or smaller school successful HCs. Sometimes the NFL, but that's usually because they didn't work out up in the NFL.
Tom Herman ring a bell? Of course they do. Again, I am not talking about hiring someone from USCw to Georgia....but from a decent sized mid tier school to Florida. It would be a big step up for the coach, and the school would get a coach with some decent head coach experience with experience running a decent sized program.
quote:
You go after assistants or smaller school successful HCs.
I get this. I just think UCF coaches goes to a Houston/TCU, then a Houston/TCU coach goes to a Florida or Georgia.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:55 am to Crowknowsbest
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... and that doesn't look like the wisest investment at the moment.
I agree. but his point was why would an established coach go to another school and leave the one he is at?
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:57 am to DawgsLife
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I get this. I just think UCF coaches goes to a Houston/TCU, then a Houston/TCU coach goes to a Florida or Georgia.
There's no significant difference between UCF and Houston. TCU is a different deal. It's private, but I would imagine Patterson makes over $5M/yr. Tough to money-whip, and he's got a title shot in a power 5 conference in Texas.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:57 am to DawgsLife
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We have been extremely fortunate, but Florida has really struggled lately with their hires
What I'm really curious to see is what direction the program will go after 2-3 multiple bad hires in a row.
After spurrier they got a dud in zook, but it was short lived and then they got meyer who took them back to the top.
After meyer they got a dud in muschamp, then followed that up with another dud in mcelwain. If they get a 3rd straight subpar coach it'll be interesting to see how far the program could fall.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 7:58 am to RD Dawg
Butch hasnt been hard to negative recruit against the last couple yrs.
Holding classes together at uga isnt tough.
Holding classes together at uga isnt tough.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:00 am to DawgsLife
Agree that the main reason UF and UGA can't just go out an easily hire a proven, championship caliber coach is that there are so few.
However, I do think the OP hits on a good point when you consider that, just for one example, Frost is likely much more coveted over Mullen on both AD and fans' want lists.
Perhaps that's money related but I think it's also pursuant to the same psychology that makes the highly recruited backup QB the most popular player on the team.
No one has seen the warts.
However, I do think the OP hits on a good point when you consider that, just for one example, Frost is likely much more coveted over Mullen on both AD and fans' want lists.
Perhaps that's money related but I think it's also pursuant to the same psychology that makes the highly recruited backup QB the most popular player on the team.
No one has seen the warts.
This post was edited on 11/2/17 at 8:10 am
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:00 am to DawgsLife
quote:
his point was why would an established coach go to another school and leave the one he is at?
I guess my point is that the financial investment necessary to hire a big-name coach away from another major program makes that hire just as risky as hiring someone less proven. It's not like "proven" coaches are a sure thing.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:10 am to DawgsLife
quote:
But Ohio State went out and got Meyer. And Michigan went out and got Harbaugh. (I'm not a Harbaugh fan, but he was a big name and somewhat proven)
And like others have said, and you agree even harbaugh hasnt really shown yet that he was worth it. He was who I was thinking of when I think about whether or not in some way a school is taking a chance with either "proven vs unproven". With todays buyouts, and such schools are actually in a bad spot. I thought harbaugh was going to be up there in the saban, and meyer range. Maybe a handful of coaches with that potential. Those are established, and not leaving their current schools. And if they think about it their schools will add a fight as they cant afford to be thrown in the coaching mix mash either. This will start to push the positive roi limits. It's tough right now. As a UT fan i'm watching Steele, and how he will do against uga and bama. But he has no HC experience. Is that better than a HC with no SEC or big competition experience like Frost???
Side note: I think the ncaa needs to step in to stop having ADs getting schooled by professional agents. it's gotten out of control.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:14 am to Crowknowsbest
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It's not like "proven" coaches are a sure thing.
Yep,hasn't worked out well for UT,UF or Arky.Book is still out on Muschamp ... not sure he was that "proven" to begin with.
The proven " coordinator" candidate seems to be the better choice these days. Kirby,Mullen,Stoops and I'd put Mahlzan in a little different category since he was HC for 1 year I believe at Arky State (strange move at the time IMO)
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:33 am to DawgsLife
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Georgia got lucky, twice in a row
I don't think so...I think UGA has better upper management...and tempers their expectations. And I don't mean settling for mediocrity...I mean settling and waiting for the exact guy they want...these other programs seem to fall into the whole "now!" syndrome...and end up fricking themselves. We knew Kirby would be the UGA HC 4-5 seasons ago...or at least I did. AND....both of the past two HC's at UGA were coordinators at 2 HUGE programs for many years...they weren't job jumping just to try and get the HC title as fast as they could...Both Richt and Smart were proven and vetted at their respective locations...they were also both part of national title teams...like I said before...it wasn't luck...it was good business.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:35 am to kywildcatfanone
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It's certainly risky. In the case of Georgia, at least for the first 2 years, it seems to have been a home run, but it could easily be a huge mistake that continues to set your program backward.
you sound like a fool...the next two recruiting classes and the season we are currently in completely refute your suggestion. UGA is moving forward...not backwards.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:38 am to Crowknowsbest
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I would imagine Patterson makes over $5M/yr.
Good guess! $5.1 Million
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There's no significant difference between UCF and Houston.
man, things have changed. I still consider UCF as being a small, small school....barely a step or two above Georgia Southern.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:43 am to BiscuitEater
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Looking at MSU football history, hiring Florida OC Dan Mullen has worked out for State.
Yes, and no offense meant, but I don't put MState in the same category as Florida or Georgia, when it comes to prestige in football. that is not to say you guys can't win or be good. You've proven that you can put a quality product on the field.
Mullen was a great hire. When I made this thread, I was thinking along the lines of "Why doesn't Florida or Georgia go after a Dan Mullen?" He has definitely elevated your program, and I thought he would have been more of a slam dunk hire than a Kirby Smart or Frost.
AGAIN, for Georgia fans......I think Kirby was a great hire and will only get better. But it was more of a "I think....." and "I hope...." situation when we made the hire.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:47 am to SthGADawg
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I don't think so...I think UGA has better upper management
Easy there.Perhaps when VD was AD but not Mcgarity.CKS was the obvious choice and he only acted quickly because he didn't want SC to snatch him up.McGarity's track had been pretty horrible with new hires in others sports.
CKS is probably gonna save his job
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:50 am to Crowknowsbest
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I guess my point is that the financial investment necessary to hire a big-name coach away from another major program makes that hire just as risky as hiring someone less proven. It's not like "proven" coaches are a sure thing.
Maybe I worded my OP poorly. But I didn't mean go to Ohio State and try to get an Urban Meyer, or go to Alabama and get Nick Saban. (Although, Texas tried it, apparently)
I meant more of a mid tier school. A decent sized school but not quite a Top 10 school, which many consider Florida. A Arizona State....NC State....Iowa...type of school. Maybe a top 20-30 school.
quote:
It's not like "proven" coaches are a sure thing.
True, but Georgia nor Florida even attempts to do this. I would think a :proven" coach is better [prepared than an assistant or a small school coach, though.
Mainly, I am tired of all the troll threads, and though I would start a thread that gives us the opportunity to have an actual discussion instead of sniping.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:52 am to SthGADawg
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you sound like a fool...the next two recruiting classes and the season we are currently in completely refute your suggestion. UGA is moving forward...not backwards.
He is making a legitimate point. I mean, Muschamp won 11 games in his second year, and had some really good recruiting classes.
I don't think Smart is the next Muschamp, and Kirby has done a great job so far, but it does take 3-4 years to really know.
Posted on 11/2/17 at 8:56 am to TOSOV
quote:
And like others have said, and you agree even harbaugh hasnt really shown yet that he was worth it.
Well. he has proven he is not worth 9 million a year, imo. However, lets not get carried away with the results from this year. They have a very, very young team. next year I would expect much better results, and the next year even better. but, for someone that has never won a conference title, Michigan definitely overpaid.
quote:
But he has no HC experience. Is that better than a HC with no SEC or big competition experience like Frost???
Very good question.
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