re: Almost 2 years in and Missouri still does not feel like it is part of Conference

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AnonymousTiger

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I'm sure this thread has nothing to do with getting made fun of in 2 threads by multiple Mizzou posters.

You're not very good at this.

It would probably feel a better fit if they were in the western division .A team in a state bordering Kansas in the Eastern division just doesn't feel right.

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Still looks to me from those stats like the SEC is a markedly better basketball conference with Mizzou in it than not in it.

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I think the potential is there - and probably a selling point to Slive & Co. - but we really will not know for the next 3-5 years. The fact he is pushing all SEC basketball schools to schedule better will mean all of them should have a higher bottom than in the past. The issue with Mizzou is how the cycle works with the other 13 schools. Here is the basketball prowess of the Big 8, SWC, and Big 12 historically in the Final Four :

Kansas = 14 Final Fours (1940 - 2012) <+> 3 National Championships (Big 7 52' : Big 8 88' : Big 12 08')
Oklahoma State = 6 Final Fours (MVC 45', 46' 49' and 51' : Big 8 95' : Big 12 04') <+> 2 National Championships (MVC 45' and 46')
Arkansas = 6 Final Fours (SWC 41', 45', 78', and 90' : SEC 94' and 95') <+> 1 National Championship (SEC 94')
Houston = 5 Final Fours (IND 67', and 68' : SWC 82', 83' and 84')
Kansas State = 4 Final Fours (Big 7 48', 51', and 58' : Big 8 64')
Oklahoma = 4 Final Fours (Big 6 39' and 47' : Big 8 88' : Big 12 02')
Texas = 3 Final Fours (SWC 43' and 47' : Big 12 03')
Baylor = 2 Final Fours (SWC 48' and 50')
Colorado = 2 Final Fours (MSC 42' : Big 7 55')
Iowa State = 1 Final Four (Big 6 44')


Now filter for 1976 onward - Year after Wooden retired and eliminating Arkansas wins in SEC
Kansas = 8 Final Fours (Big 8 86', 88', 91', and 93' : Big 12 02', 03', 08', and 12') <+> 2 National Championships (Big 8 88' : Big 12 08')
Houston = 3 Final Fours (SWC 82', 83' and 84')
Oklahoma State = 2 Final Fours (Big 8 95' : Big 12 04')
Arkansas = 2 Final Fours (SWC 78' and 90')
Oklahoma = 2 Final Fours (Big 8 88' : Big 12 02')
Texas = 1 Final Four (Big 12 03')


Further filter just for Big 8 and Big 12 (conferences Mizzou actually played in)
Kansas = 8 Final Fours (Big 8 86', 88', 91', and 93' : Big 12 02', 03', 08', and 12') <+> 2 National Championships (Big 8 88' : Big 12 08')
Oklahoma State = 2 Final Fours (Big 8 95' : Big 12 04')
Oklahoma = 2 Final Fours (Big 8 88' : Big 12 02')
Texas = 1 Final Four (Big 12 03')


Suddenly you are basically just down to Kansas - who proved they could reach the Final Four and win NCAA titles - and a bunch of other basketball schools who could not win at the highest level of the NCAA.

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Having programs that are reliably going to be in the NCAA tournament and Top 25 in many years does as much if not more for a conference's overall profile and national respect as having some team that once made a Final Four or two 20 years ago but now hasn't even been to the Big Dance in 5 years like Arky.

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Here is the difference between a brand - or near brand - and one that still has yet to establish themselves in their new home. The Hogs were winners from the 40's to the 90's in 2 different conference. The key metric being a Final Four team under 4 different coaches which means they were not a 1 coach wonder. While they may have been a dumpster fire post Richardson they still have one of the biggest venues in the country and can bounce back quickly with a solid coach. In the meantime you have Donovan winning Final Fours at Florida, and the Vols with capacity few can match.

The bottom line being the Tigers must now face better basketball teams more often. They may rise to the occasion and at last get to their first Final Four or they may just float somewhere in the middle with occasional brushes with greatness. Time will be the determining issue and who can rise to challenge Kentucky as they should always be the conference alpha dog. The worry for Mizzou is if say the Tigers return to their better basketball past or of Alabama breaks through their Final Four wall.

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The bottom line being the Tigers must now face better basketball teams more often

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Lol

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Er. No.

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Lets look at it from the top down :

Kentucky > Kansas
Florida > Oklahoma State
Arkansas > Texas
LSU > Oklahoma

After that both groups drop off and you can debate each way but in the end the SEC is winning more hardware and the SEC lead dog has dominated the schools in the SWC, Big 8, and Big 12. If the SEC's alpha dog can beat up on the SWC, Big 8, and Big 12's alpha dog chances are the SEC is better. Not one of the schools in the SWC, Big 8, and Big 12 has a winning record against UK. The lead dog in that pack (Kansas) has not shown the ability to win even 25% of the time.

Baylor 1-7 = 12.5% : Last played in 2012
Arkansas 0-4 = 00.0% (as a SWC team) : Last played in 1978
Arkansas 9-21 = 30.0% (as a SEC team) : Last played in 2013
Colorado 0-1 = 00.0% : Last played in 1998
Houston 1-3 = 25.0% : Last played in 2007
Iowa State 0-3 = 00.0% : Last played in 2012
Kansas 6-21 = 22.2% : Last played in 2012
Kansas State 0-8 = 00.0% : Last played in 2008
Missouri 0-4 = 00.0% (as a Big 12 team) : Last played in 1999
Missouri 0-1 = 00.0% (as a SEC team) : Last played in 2013
Nebraska 1-2 = 33.3% : Last played in 1972
Oklahoma 0-3 = 00.0% : Last played in 2010
Oklahoma State 1-3 = 25.0% : Last played in 1974
Rice : Never played
SMU 2-3 = 40.0% : Last played in 1984
TCU 0-2 = 00.0% : Last played in 1996
Texas 0-1 = 00.0% : Last played in 1993
Texas A&M 1-2 = 33.3% (as a SWC team) : Last played in 1978
Texas A&M 1-1 = 50.0% (as a SEC team) : Last played in 2013
Texas Tech 0-4 = 00.0% : Last played in 1994

I know the Mizzou folks are all excited about their basketball history and facilities - and rightfully so - but the SEC has shown they can go the distance better than the SWC, Big 8, or Big 12. LSU and Arkansas are down but they have history which means they can come back faster. Tennessee and Vanderbilt have solid basketball history and until we have a few years data it would be premature to say Mizzou will suddenly dominate them. What you keep calling me trolling is really me saying "lets wait and see" before we have another repeat of "old man football" in basketball.

Anybody can say Mizzou will be a great SEC basketball school but until we see the actual history it is just talk.

It is pretty strange that Mizzou was going to be grafted in as a new 'rivalry' of sorts for Arkansas, but the SEC managed to not schedule us against each other in the two "bridge" schedule years. I would think that a league that was doing weird shite like sending teams to other schools as away games in back to back years could have managed to let Mizzou play their closest SEC team.

Moar fuel to the REC/LSU scheudule conspiracy.


(there, it finally became a schedule thread)

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Moar fuel to the REC/LSU scheudule conspiracy.


(there, it finally became a schedule thread)

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You just HAD to go there, didn't you?

wmr,

I don't know, man. I mean I just don't know...

I know keelz, right?