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re: 2020 US News Best National Universities
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:38 pm to YodaWithALightSaber
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:38 pm to YodaWithALightSaber
quote:
(#15) Vanderbilt University
(#34) University of Florida
(#50) University of Georgia
(#70) Texas A&M University
(#104) Auburn University
(#104) University of South Carolina
(#104) University of Tennessee
(#132) University of Kentucky
(#139) University of Missouri
(#153) University of Alabama
(#153) Louisiana State University
(#153) University of Arkansas
(#162) University of Mississippi
(#211) Mississippi State University
Late to this thread, but it's been a long time since I've seen any ranking that didn't have the following order:
Vandy a clear #1
Florida, Georgia, and Texas A&M all #2 - #4
Auburn a distant #5, but always #5 at least in the last 3-4 years.
Then after that closely behind are the other 9 schools and the order is always all over the place, usually with the Mississippi schools at the back.
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Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:40 pm to mattytiger123
quote:
Interesting... Didn't know A&M was so far behind UGA and UF. Thought they were on the same level.
They were pretty equivalent in the rankings up until John Sharp took over the A&M system and dramatically boosted the enrollment. Enrollment was shy of 50,000 a decade ago and it is pushing 70K now.
The academic folks swear up and down they have not compromised admission standards but all the average stats that flow into these rankings . . . standardized test scores, admission percentages, etc. . . . all went down in this push for more students and the rankings sagged as a result.
It was routinely ranked in the top 50 universities way back in the 90s when I was a student . . .it sagged into the 50s and then the 60s and now we are at 70.
Most alums hate the trend but we have a good old boy dipshirt for a chancellor who is hellbent on boosting the number of graduates.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:56 pm to BHMKyle
South Carolina surprised me. LSU was in a dead heat with them a few years ago.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 4:14 pm to Monsieur le Duc
quote:
Call me crazy, but I think state schools should educate in-state kids. LSU has so much work to do academically, but I don't want to see admission for Louisiana kids to become as difficult as it is for in-state applicants to UF & UGA.
I've got no complaints especially having experienced where GA was 25 years ago when we were in the same discussion as S Carolina & Bama, Zell Miller raised teacher pay, then the Lottery started to pay for Pre-K & Headstart programs for 4 & 5 year old children before entering Elementary School, then the Hope Scholarships convinced the top students to stay in-State
Also, the issue with in-State students having a tough time getting accepted is way overblown, in the Univ Syst of GA there are plenty of slots at other State colleges to find your major if you're not accepted to one of the Big3 Univs in GA
If that doesn't work, then you can always go to a JUCO in GA, graduate with the necessary GPA and then you're guaranteed admission to one of the Big3 Univs in Ga, problem is entitled spoiled kids and their jerk parents want instant gratification when sometimes a slight detour is necessary to accomplish your goals
Posted on 12/23/19 at 4:20 pm to YodaWithALightSaber
The Decline is real
Posted on 12/23/19 at 4:37 pm to InGAButLoveBama
Both Bama and Auburn are the bad guys, it is just worse at Bama. Your justification as to why it is happening is pure propaganda by people whose ego and motives have been questioned. Again it about the mission to the citizens of Alabama.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 6:22 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
re: 2020 US News Best National UniversitiesPosted on 12/23/19 at 4:37 pm to InGAButLoveBama
Both Bama and Auburn are the bad guys, it is just worse at Bama. Your justification as to why it is happening is pure propaganda by people whose ego and motives have been questioned. Again it about the mission to the citizens of Alabama.
I will take up for both Auburn and UA on this. Neither school should be responsible for admitting lower tier students. There are plenty and I mean plenty, too many really, alternatives for lower tier students who want to attend college in Alabama. However, you would have a better argument making the case that Auburn has made it too difficult for in state students to enroll. I don't think it is true, but Auburn DOES have a stricter admission standard for in state students than UA.
Again, if UA is able to offer scholarships to most in state students and to keep tuition low because it has so many higher paying OOS students, then it is clear that UA is doing a good thing that helps in state as well as out of state students.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 6:24 pm
Posted on 12/23/19 at 7:57 pm to InGAButLoveBama
quote:
I will take up for both Auburn and UA on this. Neither school should be responsible for admitting lower tier students. There are plenty and I mean plenty, too many really, alternatives for lower tier students who want to attend college in Alabama. However, you would have a better argument making the case that Auburn has made it too difficult for in state students to enroll. I don't think it is true, but Auburn DOES have a stricter admission standard for in state students than UA.
Again, if UA is able to offer scholarships to most in state students and to keep tuition low because it has so many higher paying OOS students, then it is clear that UA is doing a good thing that helps in state as well as out of state students.
You are losing the entire point of the issue. With growth comes additional expenses that are not compensated for by the cost of out of state tuition. Those additional cost are then transferred to the instate students and their families. The purpose and mission of a state funded institution is to give the citizens of that state the chance to better their lives and the lives of the other citizens. If Bama took that scholarship money and used it to lower tuition to the level when they had 20K students, nobody could say a word. But growth is pricing out the average family from Alabama. It may not be the case for the families in CA, GA, TX and NY , who do not mind paying the extra money to send the kids here. For some it is still a bargain. But the state should not be obligated to educate those kids over the children of Alabama. Having 60% OOS enrollment sends that message.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:50 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
quote:
I will take up for both Auburn and UA on this. Neither school should be responsible for admitting lower tier students. There are plenty and I mean plenty, too many really, alternatives for lower tier students who want to attend college in Alabama. However, you would have a better argument making the case that Auburn has made it too difficult for in state students to enroll. I don't think it is true, but Auburn DOES have a stricter admission standard for in state students than UA.
Again, if UA is able to offer scholarships to most in state students and to keep tuition low because it has so many higher paying OOS students, then it is clear that UA is doing a good thing that helps in state as well as out of state students.
You are losing the entire point of the issue. With growth comes additional expenses that are not compensated for by the cost of out of state tuition. Those additional cost are then transferred to the instate students and their families. The purpose and mission of a state funded institution is to give the citizens of that state the chance to better their lives and the lives of the other citizens. If Bama took that scholarship money and used it to lower tuition to the level when they had 20K students, nobody could say a word. But growth is pricing out the average family from Alabama. It may not be the case for the families in CA, GA, TX and NY , who do not mind paying the extra money to send the kids here. For some it is still a bargain. But the state should not be obligated to educate those kids over the children of Alabama. Having 60% OOS enrollment sends that message.
Well first, UA is under no obligation to reduce its tuition to the rate from 2001. To think otherwise is absurd. UA's tuition has been frozen for two years. It is lower than Auburn's.
Second, you are making big assumptions about the connection between enrollment growth and costs. If you look at the most recent financial reports for UA and Auburn, which school has the healthier financial situation? Is it Auburn, with far fewer OOS students, or is it UA, with far more, and higher tuition paying OOS students? Please go to page 9 of LINK . Then compare what you see with page 13 at LINK . Why in the world would UA have a much healthier financial situation, if by your logic, it automatically means it has so many more costs accompanying a higher enrollment?
This is why I have argued that Auburn would do well to try to emulate UA's model of growth if it plans to continue to spend at the rate it does.
Another thing to consider is that much of UA's construction budget has been for dorms and greek houses that house students who are paying to live in those spaces. Over the long run, they become money makers for The University.
UA has responsibly modulated growth to make sure that its financial situation remains solid. But comparing the two schools' financial reports, it is clear that UA has more room for error.
Do feel free to respond with facts, not assumptions that put your rival in a negative light.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 12/23/19 at 11:27 pm to InGAButLoveBama
AU has already decided to cap OOS enrollment to 30%, so AU isn’t following anyone’s model. But that still isn’t enough. AU has banked their future on research, while Bama has banked theirs on the model that the University of Phoenix developed. I guess that works for a for profit institution. Which doesn’t serve the people of Alabama.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 11:29 pm
Posted on 12/24/19 at 12:18 am to Irons Puppet
quote:
This bill would require all 4-year Colleges in Alabama to cap out of state student total enrollment to a maximum of 20% by the 5th year from the date of the passage of this bill.
Terribly short-sighted approach. This would turn UA and AU into the Mississippi schools. Truth is Alabama high schools graduate a lot of retards and under no circumstance should the average high school graduate be getting admitted to either university. The state has plenty of jucos and community colleges to educate the 80%; let UA and AU try to do better.
Posted on 12/24/19 at 12:37 am to Old Hellen Yeller
Very good post.
Posted on 12/24/19 at 6:42 am to Old Hellen Yeller
quote:
quote:
This bill would require all 4-year Colleges in Alabama to cap out of state student total enrollment to a maximum of 20% by the 5th year from the date of the passage of this bill.
Terribly short-sighted approach. This would turn UA and AU into the Mississippi schools. Truth is Alabama high schools graduate a lot of retards and under no circumstance should the average high school graduate be getting admitted to either university. The state has plenty of jucos and community colleges to educate the 80%; let UA and AU try to do better.
No, it would make the Universities decide if the want to pursue unnecessary growth or meet their obligation to their charter and mission statement. Right now the state funds about 15% of their total budget, so the decision would make them chose weather to continue to accept taxpayers money in pursuit of this growth and educating out of state students at the cost of opportunities for state citizens. Auburn and Alabama both produced quality graduates when the enrollment was in the low 20's, so the comment about becoming Mississippi Schools is bullshite. The problem was the their egos wanted the growth, but they knew that to do it they would have to chase these lists to keep the alums and Legislature happy. Then things got out of hand. Like I said, NC and CA College systems both self-imposed this cap (18%) because they found out that other states were taking advantage of them. Auburn and Alabama are too greedy to do that, so the Legislature with have to step in. Is it going to be the University of Alabama or the University of Phoenix (South) ?
This post was edited on 12/24/19 at 8:40 am
Posted on 12/24/19 at 7:48 am to iglass
I was going to post this. I am not fan of Bama but the success in football has unquestionably improved the student body and helped fundraising. HTF can you say they fell by 76 spots?
Posted on 12/24/19 at 12:40 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
re: 2020 US News Best National UniversitiesPosted on 12/23/19 at 11:27 pm to InGAButLoveBama
AU has already decided to cap OOS enrollment to 30%, so AU isn’t following anyone’s model. But that still isn’t enough. AU has banked their future on research, while Bama has banked theirs on the model that the University of Phoenix developed. I guess that works for a for profit institution. Which doesn’t serve the people of Alabama.
Do you have a reference for this claim about Auburn capping OOS enrollment? I have heard this kind of claim about enrollment before, but it was not true as Auburn is now over 30,000 enrollment.
UA too is increasing its research program. In fact, last year was a record year for spending on research and funding acquired for research. And this is true despite the fact that UA does not have an Ag or Vet school as Auburn does.
You still have not explained why Auburn's financials are in significantly worse shape than UA's if the latter's model is unsustainable.
Your nasty comment comparing UA to the Univ of Phoenix reveals your hatred for big brother in Tuscaloosa. Just be proud of your school. You don't need UA to fail to love your school.
This post was edited on 12/24/19 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 12/24/19 at 12:47 pm to mule74
quote:
re: 2020 US News Best National UniversitiesPosted on 12/24/19 at 7:48 am to iglass
I was going to post this. I am not fan of Bama but the success in football has unquestionably improved the student body and helped fundraising. HTF can you say they fell by 76 spots?
Because USNWR changed the rankings criteria. It seriously hurt schools like UA that offer a lot of merit aid.
Posted on 12/24/19 at 12:52 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
e: 2020 US News Best National UniversitiesPosted on 12/24/19 at 6:42 am to Old Hellen Yeller
quote:
quote:
This bill would require all 4-year Colleges in Alabama to cap out of state student total enrollment to a maximum of 20% by the 5th year from the date of the passage of this bill.
Terribly short-sighted approach. This would turn UA and AU into the Mississippi schools. Truth is Alabama high schools graduate a lot of retards and under no circumstance should the average high school graduate be getting admitted to either university. The state has plenty of jucos and community colleges to educate the 80%; let UA and AU try to do better.
No, it would make the Universities decide if the want to pursue unnecessary growth or meet their obligation to their charter and mission statement. Right now the state funds about 15% of their total budget, so the decision would make them chose weather to continue to accept taxpayers money in pursuit of this growth and educating out of state students at the cost of opportunities for state citizens. Auburn and Alabama both produced quality graduates when the enrollment was in the low 20's, so the comment about becoming Mississippi Schools is bull shite. The problem was the their egos wanted the growth, but they knew that to do it they would have to chase these lists to keep the alums and Legislature happy. Then things got out of hand. Like I said, NC and CA College systems both self-imposed this cap (18%) because they found out that other states were taking advantage of them. Auburn and Alabama are too greedy to do that, so the Legislature with have to step in. Is it going to be the University of Alabama or the University of Phoenix (South) ?
Still waiting for evidence that UA's financials are in bad shape for pursuing enrollment growth. I have provided you links to the financial reports of both schools, but you refuse to consider that you might be wrong. Did you even look at the links I shared? Do explain why Auburn has a bigger non current liability, and a much lower asset total. UA's financials are much healthier, even though Auburn gets much more in state funding due to having an Ag and Vet school.
This post was edited on 12/24/19 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 12/24/19 at 1:43 pm to InGAButLoveBama
quote:
Still waiting for evidence that UA's financials are in bad shape for pursuing enrollment growth.
Where did anyone say UA's has financial issues because of growth ? The University of Phoenix doesn't have any financial issues either, since they just relieved students of $150M in student aid. That still doesn't relieve the citizens of Alabama from the skyrocketing cost of Higher Education. OOS jump at the opportunity of paying OOS Tuition in Alabama, because it is still cheaper than many of their local colleges. Of course you being from GA, you wouldn't have any skin in the game.
Posted on 12/24/19 at 2:50 pm to YodaWithALightSaber
how the hell is a&m below uga?
how has bama fallen like 70+ places in 5 years?
how has bama fallen like 70+ places in 5 years?
Posted on 12/24/19 at 3:36 pm to RightHook
Am should be ranked above UGA, it has a massive engineering college, UGA has a small one and only recent started offering engineering programs.
This post was edited on 12/24/19 at 3:36 pm
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