Spinoff: Discussion on Education in the US

It's a really important issue for the future. I personally went to a high school filled with "disadvantaged" students. The classes were constantly interrupted with behavioral issues, and the need for huge amounts of remedial classes limited the honors/AP classes I would have had the opportunity to enjoy at another school.

I have a brother in law that came to live with us from an inner city school in California and we enrolled him in our local high school, which is part of the bad school district but in a nicer area. He experienced the opposite problem I had, not enough remedial classes.

I think the real solution is probably a hybrid of some of the current solutions out there. After 8th/9th grade, a decision should be made for the student to go to a "college prep" school or a trade/proficiency school.

Having high achievers fighting with remedial students for the school's limited resources doesn't appear to do anything but bring the level of education quality to a moderate place when more specialized schools would provide a better service to both groups of students.

Education is obviously not as high a priority here as it is in other highly-industrialized countries.

I suppose the fact that we "give everyone a trophy" has something to do with that. Kids just have to learn enough to get by. Critical thinking isn't the priority that it should be.

Urban areas = higher percentage of single parent families = less structure in the home = more behavioral problems = teachers spend more time disciplining instead of teaching = shitty education

I'm of the opinion that a lot of the education system's problem starts at home with parenting. The parents don't give a shite, so neither do the kids. I would think the opportunity to learn is there. It's just a matter of kids taking advantage of it.

It might sound crazy, but I wouldn't be opposed to splitting students into more of an "education caste" sort of system like other countries use. Those that want to pursue higher education can continue and the others can learn a trade. frick all those "no child left behind". People need to learn that decisions have consequences; even at an early age.

The problem for me starts with how we approach learning. From first grade through high school, the goal appears to be to get children to be able to regurgitate facts. The who, what, and when matter far more than the why and how. You don't learn how to think in that environment, you learn how to memorize. The few classes I had that did focus on the why are the ones that stuck with me. My HS Biology class was like that. It was a mfer too, but nearly 10 years later I was able to take Bio for Science Majors and get a C without bothering to go to class or study.

There is also the problem of the "one size fits most" model. You have to take four histories, four englishes, four maths, ect. In the name of being "well rounded" students don't get to improve on their areas of talent. From early on, there should be tests to see what students are good at and what they are not. Then put a focus on what they have a talent for. Kids who excel at math, get them into more advanced math early. Kids who have a talent for verbal skills, get them improving in those areas. A king in one trade is more valuable now than a jack in all trades.

There is also much talent wasted having all of the students go at the same pace in the elementary and middle school levels. I was bored every day I went to school, because it was so easy. There wasn't a challenge and I ended up tuning out. I know I wasn't alone either. The 21st century is going to be a story of specialization economically. Instead of reacting to that fact and creating a model where the more gifted students go at a much more accelerated pace, you slow them down to meet the norm.

We should look at the success of other countries. Look toward the Finnish system or the German system. See what works and what wouldn't work here. There is a laboratory out there where many different ideas are tested, but we just keep chugging along with a system that keeps losing ground to the rest of the world.

There is of course the daunting issue of rural and inner city schools. That problem however is multifaceted and tied in great part to the issues surrounding poverty. Some test cases however have proven a focus on these schools can make a difference. A school in Mobile (I can't remember the name) was notorious for poor performance. So the school board put a focus on putting excellent teachers into the school and money to improve the infrastructure there. The result? Scores keep improving. The community has since embraced the school. The investment has paid off.

Now, obviously you can't do that for every single struggling school. There isn't enough money to go around and not enough quality teachers to pull it off. The point is though, the conventional wisdom that you can throw all the money you want at a school like that and it won't work if there isn't already buy-in from the community is flawed. Give people something to be proud of, and they will be proud of it. Who's going to be proud of a failing school.

Increasing teacher salaries would go a long way in increasing the pool of qualified educators. A private system will not get enough benefit from a slew of good teachers to justify that cost, it is really something the public end of things is more capable of doing. Government can be useful in that sense, since profit isn't a motive. I know that's idealistic, but we as a people should expect more from our government. Of course, even if we had better functioning bodies to deal with education; there is still the issue of having the funds. That end isn't exactly going to be easy to solve.

I'm not an educator, the school system is going backwards. The problem is the lack of discipline at home and parents that won't let the educators discipline the bad students.

No child left behind is holding back the good students. Let's face it, half of the students should only be in agg and home ed, at least they graduate with some skills for life.

I could discuss this for days, but as long as we are handing out participation trophies, we are doing our kids and future kids an injustice.

quote:

---

Is the current system working?

---

Yes.

Change your students and your "quality" of education rises dramatically. Teachers aren't any better here than they are in Southern states but the perceived quality of education is dramatically different. It's because there are motivated students here.

- More math and science focus.
- Less teachers unions.
- More math and science focus.
- Voucher system.
- More math and science focus.

I think money is an issue teachers unions love to harp on, but in reality many school budgets are far higher than the municipal budget of the city they are located.

Primary and secondary education in most of the US is sufficient in preparing the average kid to get o job or go to college.

The big difference you see is in post secondary education.