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re: Talent Deficient and Coaching Deficient
Posted on 11/12/22 at 7:10 pm to the808bass
Posted on 11/12/22 at 7:10 pm to the808bass
quote:
This at least should be a discussion.
Even the worst lineman talent wise should be coached up enough to limit penalties. And this line is penalized a lot.
Hire an OC. Hire a QB coach. Fire the Dline coach. Hire a new one. Complete retooling on the offensive side of the ball.
2
Posted on 11/12/22 at 7:40 pm to GalacticaCannon
I'm gonna assume you meant OL coach.
Posted on 11/12/22 at 8:32 pm to blueprint_one
quote:
New Mexico State is up 37-0 right now
NMSU coach Jerry Kill is one of the best program builders in the country. He turned around the Minnesota program in 1 year. This year he started 0-4 and they are 4-1 since.
Coach Kill built the Webb City High School program in the late 80’s early 90’s. He won Webb City’s 1st state championship in 1989. Since then we haven’t had a losing season and have won 15 more state championship’s. This year was the first time in 20 years we didn’t win a district title. Some of his former players are going to the game next week and might get go to the locker room after the game.
If it wasn’t for health problems he would still be a P5 coach.
Posted on 11/12/22 at 10:15 pm to MizzouBS
Westminster Christian DLineman Sterling Webb has been playing a bit for the Aggies. Mama Shalonda will be the loudest fan in the stadium next week.
Posted on 11/12/22 at 10:16 pm to GalacticaCannon
quote:
Even the worst lineman talent wise should be coached up enough to limit penalties.
This OL sucks sure but today the procedures were on WR’s, hell #84 had 3 alone.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 8:14 am to the808bass
quote:
No one is defending Drink today.
In fact, on this board, he hasn’t been defended much at all. The biggest defense is “we can’t fire coaches every three years.”
I would disagree. There a several on here claiming that Drink is a good coach who just doesn't have enough talent yet and he is worth keeping just because of recruiting.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 10:31 am to notsince98
Name them.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 10:43 am to the808bass
He probably means JQ. Who, tbh, bloviates so much it seems as if he’s multiple people.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 11:13 am to GalacticaCannon
So true.
Jp is another.
Jp is another.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 8:13 pm to MizzouBS
And he built SIU from 1-10 to 10-2 in 2 years.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 11:48 am to notsince98
quote:
I would disagree. There a several on here claiming that Drink is a good coach who just doesn't have enough talent yet and he is worth keeping just because of recruiting.
I don’t know if he is going to be a good P5 head coach. I think he has good offensive mind and could be a good coach one day. I think his recruiting is a little overrated. His recruiting is a good, but we are in the SEC and being ranked in the bottom half of the conference is good to ok not great. Ranked 10th in the SEC in 2021, 6th in 2022, and 14th so far this year.
What makes it hard to grade Drink is what Odom left him. Recruiting a QB is a 12 to 18 month process and Odom didn’t know how to scout or evaluate a QB. He had the mindset that defense wins championship’s. After getting a QB it usually takes 2 to 3 years to turn a 3* or 4* into a good P5 starter.
Drink hasn’t had a QB that can run his offense and has had to dumb it down for Bazelak and Cook. I watched some video of his time at NC State and Appy State. Drink’s offense doesn’t look complicated it’s just a lot of pre-snap reads. I noticed at least 3 or 4 different type of screens that are pre-snap reads and 2 of them are really easy reads.
Cook’s biggest problem is reading a defense. The basic/easy reads he misses makes it a struggle for X receiver’s and TE’s to get involved in the offense. This also can cause the RB’s to be less effective.
Cook mainly relies on his slot receivers and his legs to make plays.
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 11:49 am
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:29 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
What makes it hard to grade Drink is what Odom left him. Recruiting a QB is a 12 to 18 month process and Odom didn’t know how to scout or evaluate a QB. He had the mindset that defense wins championship’s. After getting a QB it usually takes 2 to 3 years to turn a 3* or 4* into a good P5 starter.
Drink hasn’t had a QB that can run his offense and has had to dumb it down for Bazelak and Cook. I watched some video of his time at NC State and Appy State. Drink’s offense doesn’t look complicated it’s just a lot of pre-snap reads. I noticed at least 3 or 4 different type of screens that are pre-snap reads and 2 of them are really easy reads.
Cook’s biggest problem is reading a defense. The basic/easy reads he misses makes it a struggle for X receiver’s and TE’s to get involved in the offense. This also can cause the RB’s to be less effective.
Cook mainly relies on his slot receivers and his legs to make plays.
IMO, this all just seems like an overcomplication. Good coaches dont necessarily come in and turn teams into conference champions but they come in and start improving things. Odom left Drink a team that went .500 in the SEC. Drink hasn't shown any improvement on that Odom team to this point.
I think the excuses are valid as to why Drink hasn't won the SEC yet. I dont think the excuses are valid as to why he isn't making anyone better (talking offense here since he is OC). Regardless of how bad our talent is a good coach would make them better than they were and it isn't happening.
Drink may end up a good coach someday but right now I think it is very easy to look at everything and say Drink is currently not a good coach.
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:51 pm to notsince98
quote:
Regardless of how bad our talent is
We are exactly where we are normally if not slightly better. For the past 20 years, we have been fielding a fringe top 25 talent level team. The difference was Pinkel was getting them to perform at a higher level. Drinkwitz and his staff are just bad at player development. Good players making bone-headed mistakes consistently.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 1:02 pm to notsince98
I don’t disagree with much there.
I don’t think the extension drastically increases Drink’s shelf life here.
If he’s 4 and 6 at this point next year, he’s likely done. If he has a 6-6 year next year, they’re going to expect progress beyond that in 2024.
I will firmly believe that we are exactly what our record says we are. But it’s hard to ignore that the bouncing ball cost us two more potential wins. I’m not advocating for asterisks. But it has to be part of the evaluation of the coach.
I don’t think the extension drastically increases Drink’s shelf life here.
If he’s 4 and 6 at this point next year, he’s likely done. If he has a 6-6 year next year, they’re going to expect progress beyond that in 2024.
I will firmly believe that we are exactly what our record says we are. But it’s hard to ignore that the bouncing ball cost us two more potential wins. I’m not advocating for asterisks. But it has to be part of the evaluation of the coach.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 1:06 pm to the808bass
Yeah, if we were 6-4, or even 5-5, folks would be a lot more tolerant.
But if he runs Cook out there next year, he's toast.
But if he runs Cook out there next year, he's toast.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 2:05 pm to blueprint_one
quote:
We are exactly where we are normally if not slightly better. For the past 20 years, we have been fielding a fringe top 25 talent level team. The difference was Pinkel was getting them to perform at a higher level. Drinkwitz and his staff are just bad at player development. Good players making bone-headed mistakes consistently.
No argument here but it wasn't worth debating talent level to make the point.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 4:15 pm to notsince98
quote:
IMO, this all just seems like an overcomplication. Good coaches dont necessarily come in and turn teams into conference champions but they come in and start improving things. Odom left Drink a team that went .500 in the SEC. Drink hasn't shown any improvement on that Odom team to this point.
2019 starters returning for 2020
1. OT Durant -Gone
2. LG Broom stayed
3. Colon Castillo-gone
4. RG Wallace Simms gone
5. RT Hyrin White stayed Injured did not play in 2020. Hasn’t been the same
6. TE Albert O gone
7. QB KB gone
8. RB Roundtree stayed
9. WR Kam Scott transferred to Houston
10. Jonathan Johnson gone
11. Jalen Knox transferred to Ole Miss
12. Kicker McCann gone
13. Punter McCann gone
Odom’s 2019 average to below average offense returned to 2 starters or 16% to 18%.
quote:
— Over the last nine years, 77 teams have had at least six fewer returning starters than the prior season, and only 14 of those teams have improved that season. The average drop-off was a winning percentage decline of 14.1% and ATS drop of about 5.0%.
quote:
teams with a brand new quarterback see their records drop by 4.3% on average while covering just 49.1% of point spreads.
LINK
Drink was left with Roundtree, Badie, and Bazelak.
Drink’s defense has had to work with short field position in most of the games in the past 3 years.
Not giving excuses just facts.
A problem is that Horn may not be ready next year. Baseball in the Spring will probably cause him to miss Spring workouts.
Gabarri might be the QB of the future. Horn might be the starter next year, but is he going to be 100% dedicated to playing football. It took Russell Wilson 4 years to decide and when he did he was good. Maybe Horn will figure it out sooner
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 11/14/22 at 4:21 pm to MizzouBS
Every college team loses players every year. That is only an excuse for teams who were really good and had a slight drop. That isn't Mizzou.
Most new coaches at bad teams lose tons and good coaches still make improvements.
Again, you overcomplicate the analysis. Drink isn't good right now and after 3 years you dont even need to point at what talent left to say that. Our talent level is way above Vandy yet there we are right with them struggling to beat them.
Most new coaches at bad teams lose tons and good coaches still make improvements.
Again, you overcomplicate the analysis. Drink isn't good right now and after 3 years you dont even need to point at what talent left to say that. Our talent level is way above Vandy yet there we are right with them struggling to beat them.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 4:29 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
A problem is that Horn may not be ready next year. Baseball in the Spring will probably cause him to miss Spring workouts.
I've read or heard this won't be an issue. Baseball will only fit in around football responsibilites.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 8:30 pm to Mizz-SEC
Here is my main problem with people thinking Drink is not the right coach. Even without a QB that opens the playbook..playback...
1. Auburn loss he is let down by 2 players.
2. Schrader is 1 step away from 7 points and a tie game against #1 Georgia. Who knows how OT goes.
3. 1 terrible QB decision away from a Florida tie or OT win.
4. 1 punt play away from a UK win.
Usually a team splits these close games. Mizzou has lost them all because of 1 play. And what could Drink have done to change any of those events? Bad offense, clock management and QB and somehow 4 losses come down to 1 play.
1. Auburn loss he is let down by 2 players.
2. Schrader is 1 step away from 7 points and a tie game against #1 Georgia. Who knows how OT goes.
3. 1 terrible QB decision away from a Florida tie or OT win.
4. 1 punt play away from a UK win.
Usually a team splits these close games. Mizzou has lost them all because of 1 play. And what could Drink have done to change any of those events? Bad offense, clock management and QB and somehow 4 losses come down to 1 play.
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