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re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
Posted on 6/10/20 at 11:59 am to TideWarrior
Posted on 6/10/20 at 11:59 am to TideWarrior
quote:
Another note for those unaware East TN tried to leave TN and join the Union but was unsuccessful. Slavery was not supported in the area that was made up mostly of German, Scotch, and Irish families. Everyone in my family with the exception of one fought for the north during the war. Andrew Johnson is from there as well.
Free State of Franklin
1
Posted on 6/10/20 at 12:09 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Alabama and Mississippi had counties succeed from the Confederacy. Or try. I don’t know if there were formal succession papers for those counties.
Jones County, Mississippi is probably the most well know due to the movie that was released a few years ago.
Jones County, Mississippi is probably the most well know due to the movie that was released a few years ago.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 12:15 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
Another note for those unaware East TN tried to leave TN and join the Union but was unsuccessful. Slavery was not supported in the area that was made up mostly of German, Scotch, and Irish families. Everyone in my family with the exception of one fought for the north during the war. Andrew Johnson is from there as well.
It also wasn't viable. Too much rocky soil and too many hills with too few large valleys for big farming operations to exist. Same reason the region that became West Virginia wasn't supportive of the Confederacy and broke away in the middle of the war.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 12:19 pm to CapstoneGrad06
Northeast Tennessee, like much of Appalachia and non-large scale concentrated farming areas, had no vested interest in fighting to protect the right of the state to keep slaves.
This of course was why the argument was made early and often that the Federal government was coming to burn down their neighbors and their states - to give them a vested reason to fight. Because the right for the rich to keep their wealth machine running wasn't gonna be enough. They didn't give two shits about planters in Middle Tennessee or West Tennessee losing their workforce and having their industry blown to bits. They also had very little connection to Middle and West Tennessee. Their connections were with other Scotch Irish in nearby Appalachia (North Carolina specifically, where many many of their fathers and grandfather's had been born before journeying over the 1st mountain chain).
At a certain point groups of poor whites, mostly in areas where there were no nearby plantation areas, those people decided to hell with this, we aren't fighting to the rich to keep their racket going.
Class has always mattered.
This of course was why the argument was made early and often that the Federal government was coming to burn down their neighbors and their states - to give them a vested reason to fight. Because the right for the rich to keep their wealth machine running wasn't gonna be enough. They didn't give two shits about planters in Middle Tennessee or West Tennessee losing their workforce and having their industry blown to bits. They also had very little connection to Middle and West Tennessee. Their connections were with other Scotch Irish in nearby Appalachia (North Carolina specifically, where many many of their fathers and grandfather's had been born before journeying over the 1st mountain chain).
At a certain point groups of poor whites, mostly in areas where there were no nearby plantation areas, those people decided to hell with this, we aren't fighting to the rich to keep their racket going.
Class has always mattered.
This post was edited on 6/10/20 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 6/10/20 at 12:25 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
At a certain point groups of poor whites, mostly in areas where there were no nearby plantation areas, those people decided to hell with this, we aren't fighting to the rich to keep their racket going.
Slave labor was the backbone of the plantation system and therefore the economic system of the South. Remove free labor from the equation and the economics of the plantation system don't work out to well. The reason they fought to protect slavery was to protect the economics for the planter class.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 12:27 pm to 14&Counting
quote:
Slave labor was the backbone of the plantation system and therefore the economic system of the South. Remove free labor from the equation and the economics of the plantation system don't work out to well. The reason they fought to protect slavery was to protect the economics for the planter class.
It was the backbone of that part of the Southern economy. It was not at all part of the Appalachian economy, and the poor Appalachian economy did not see much of any benefit of that economic system. North Alabama (Winston Co), North Georgia (Rabun Co), East Tennessee (Free State of Franklin), Western NC, Western Virginia (West Virginia), etc.
They fought for pride and out of duty early, but many quickly realized that they were being used - and that's where the mid-war secessions from the secession came from (while some opposed it from the very beginning).
This post was edited on 6/10/20 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 6/10/20 at 12:38 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
They fought for pride and out of duty early, but many quickly realized that they were being used - and that's where the mid-war secessions from the secession came from (while some opposed it from the very beginning).
The movie Free State of Jones did a decent job emphasizing this (at least for a blockbuster movie).
Posted on 6/10/20 at 1:06 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
They fought for pride and out of duty early, but many quickly realized that they were being used - and that's where the mid-war secessions from the secession came from (while some opposed it from the very beginning).
This is also why desertion from the Confederate army became rampant as the war progressed. It was also a problem in the Union army, but far less so on a per capita basis.
This post was edited on 6/10/20 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 6/10/20 at 1:30 pm to Robot Santa
Cracker Barrel is now up for being racist
Posted on 6/10/20 at 2:52 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
For what, exactly?
Posted on 6/10/20 at 3:27 pm to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
For what, exactly?
Having the audacity to love America.
Of all places, I would have never thought Macon county would be the voice of reason in this latest bout of insanity.
LINK
The east Alabama county, which is more than 80% black, also is researching what will be needed to remove the statue from its base and relocate it elsewhere, perhaps to a nearby heritage museum, Maxwell said.
“It’s part of the history of the county whether you like it or not, and we want to preserve it,” Maxwell said.
Here's the guy who has no business speaking on this issue because he's guilty of using reason instead of emotion.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 4:09 pm to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
I ate a Cracker Barrel once in my life, felt like a slave auction was about to happen.
quote:
Open the door to a Cracker Barrel and you get a whiff of Jim Crow. And biscuits.
quote:
Someone on here said the old wood floor boards at Cracker Barrel squeak the N-word when a black person steps in the door and I can never forget it
quote:
White people love cracker barrel because it reminds them of segregation
Hell if I know
Posted on 6/10/20 at 4:16 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
ETA
This post was edited on 6/10/20 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 6/10/20 at 4:21 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
The people that wrote those statements clearly have never been to a cracker barrel in Alabama or West Georgia. Those are as diverse as the region.
If there is one thing that unites black and white southerners, it’s the love of greasy fried foods, biscuits, cornbread, and mac-n-cheese.
If there is one thing that unites black and white southerners, it’s the love of greasy fried foods, biscuits, cornbread, and mac-n-cheese.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 4:32 pm to Robot Santa
quote:
This is also why desertion from the Confederate army became rampant as the war progressed.
Family pressure was a far bigger reason. Inflation was Venezuela-like but it didn’t matter because there was nothing to buy anyhow. Manufacturing in the south was pretty limited, the men that tended the farms were off in the army, and the Union naval blockade prevented all but a tiny trickle of imported goods.
A sense of honor only goes so far when the wife is writing about how she and the kids have nothing to eat. Post July 1863 (Gettysburg and Vicksburg), there was no doubt how the war would turn out and those guys simply decided their bigger duty now was at home.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 5:32 pm to JustGetItRight
I’m absolutely fine with us and everyone else in our country doing a complete purge of anything and everything related to the confederate states of ameica. It all just flat out makes other Americans feel unwelcome and attacked and it’s like a display of hostility. Purge it all I can live with it I get it. One thing that will stay up is that Washington DC statue of Albert Pike though. That thing ain’t moving an inch.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 5:54 pm to moester75
I live in Little Rock. Several Albert Pike related things around the City. I have yet to hear about any push to remove them.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 5:57 pm to CapstoneGrad06
Albert Pike is more powerful than ANYBODY that’s on ANY statue in this nation. I’m so certain that Pike is untouchable that I’ll bet my life no Albert Pike statue gets touched or moved.
ETA: After further thought, I’m going to change my prediction that only the Washington DC Albert Pike statue will stay. I forgot there were other symbols and obelisks around the country of Pike that possibly could be touched. That DC Lodge though will not let their prophet be disrespected I bet.
ETA: After further thought, I’m going to change my prediction that only the Washington DC Albert Pike statue will stay. I forgot there were other symbols and obelisks around the country of Pike that possibly could be touched. That DC Lodge though will not let their prophet be disrespected I bet.
This post was edited on 6/11/20 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:45 pm to JustGetItRight
The Confederate army was rocking the Union’s world for much of the early to middle part of the war. So much so that Northern news papers were castigating Lincoln and demanding a cessation of war. Lincoln invoked censorship on the papers and deported a congressman to maintain discipline. I suspect if Lee had taken Sherman’s ploy when the Union army was holed up at Gettysburg and gone out burning down Pennsylvania instead of conducting Picket’s charge, things might have turned even more sour for Lincoln.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 11:09 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
Another note for those unaware East TN tried to leave TN and join the Union but was unsuccessful. Slavery was not supported in the area that was made up mostly of German, Scotch, and Irish families. Everyone in my family with the exception of one fought for the north during the war. Andrew Johnson is from there as well.
Johnson may have been loyal to the Union and opposed to slavery, but he was a virulent racist. He spent his entire presidency blocking Republican legislation to grant basic civil rights to freedmen. He dedicated his political career to fighting black citizenship, voting rights, property ownership rights and helping southern states reestablish the same social, political, and legal structure as it had prior to the civil war, except for slavery. Even his own cabinet hated him.
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