re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques

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The war was lost in July 1863 at Gettysburg and when Vicksburg fell

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Try telling that to citizens of the United States one year later. The war looked no closer to being finished than it had 365 days earlier on the fields of Gettysburg. Adams County, Pennsylvania and the Gettysburg National Battlefield have done a fantastic job over the years with retroactively making Gettysburg THE turning point of the Civil War, but even the licensed battlefield guides who take guests on battlefield tours there will tell you that reputation is historically overrated. Talk to 10 different Civil War historians and they will give you 10 different turning points. For example, the most accomplished and famous scholar of the modern era, James McPherson, will tell you that Antietam was the true turning point of the conflict. Gordon C. Rhea will point to the aftermath of the Wilderness as the absolute point where the Confederacy was doomed to ultimate defeat. I have also seen arguments for Shiloh and the Peninsula Campaign due to the fact that the "gloves came off" so to speak after each one of those failed campaigns, bringing the full industrial might of the United States to bear against the Confederacy. Vicksburg and Gettysburg are obviously listed as turning points as well, but both Union victories were followed by Union setbacks at Chickamauga and Mine Run respectively.

After Gettysburg in can definitely be said that the South no longer had the ability to win the war outright, however they still had the ability to force the United States to the negotiating table by making the war appear unwinnable for the Union. This almost came to fruition after the bloody battles in northern and central Virginia from May-July 1864. If not for the successes at Mobile Bay and Atlanta, it's very likely Lincoln loses to McClellan in November and the new Democratic majority sues for a negotiated peace - thus granting the Confederacy its independence.

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It is a fascinating mesh of culture, and it makes me sad that the only thing lots of people know about it is slavery and civil rights (and that includes people from the state).

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It is because history is written by the victors. Our founding fathers are praised throughout history classes and books in this country, though they owned slaves and committed treason as well. But those injustices are overlooked because it does not fit the narrative we want to support and have celebrated for so many years. The civil war it becomes the justification for the war and the outcome. So of course it is an issue that has to be resolved to justify the narrative of the victors.

We celebrate Thanksgiving in this country even though the reality of the event was the Native Americans "last supper". But again the narrative is scripted by the victors.

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It is because history is written by the victors. Our founding fathers are praised throughout history classes and books in this country, though they owned slaves and committed treason as well. But those injustices are overlooked because it does not fit the narrative we want to support and have celebrated for so many years. The civil war it becomes the justification for the war and the outcome. So of course it is an issue that has to be resolved to justify the narrative of the victors.

We celebrate Thanksgiving in this country even though the reality of the event was the Native Americans "last supper". But again the narrative is scripted by the victors.

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Yep

I do want to add that I'm not sure I came across very clearly. I was not, in any way, attempting to say we spend too much time on the civil rights movement and/or slavery. I was only noting how I wish some of the earlier histories of Alabama (and other parts of the region) were more widely discussed/known, as some of the earlier colonial/discovery era stories are in the upper South and New England.

But, as you noted, the "victors" were the English, and the old history of settlement is Native and French/Spanish.

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I’d also just like to add, folks back then were just tough as hell My gosh, I don’t know how they made it.

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Just fvckin insane. I'm reading the McCullough book "Pioneers" right now about the first settlers of Ohio.

It just makes me feel like a giant, doughboy pvssy.

Found him in 2 seconds.

There are also possibly two Asians in that crowd.

The 5 guys to the left of the black guy reminds me of Animal House Delta Tau Chi Fraternity, with the one with the tan jacket Bluto (Belushi).

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We have a very diverse student body.

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And sadly more and more are coming from out-of-state. In 2018, 59% of the 33,000 enrolled undergrads were not native to the state of Alabama.

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Posting one picture is goofy.

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Especially when the pic appears to be of the block seating area, which is dominated by predominantly white fraternities.

I think the University does a pretty good job attracting a diverse student body.

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Yep

I do want to add that I'm not sure I came across very clearly. I was not, in any way, attempting to say we spend too much time on the civil rights movement and/or slavery. I was only noting how I wish some of the earlier histories of Alabama (and other parts of the region) were more widely discussed/known, as some of the earlier colonial/discovery era stories are in the upper South and New England.

But, as you noted, the "victors" were the English, and the old history of settlement is Native and French/Spanish.

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All good as I was actually just adding to what you had said. I agree