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stomp
Alabama Fan
Bama
Member since Nov 2014
2932 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

This has been a great thread boys - appreciate all the input. These issues are hard as hell for all of us who love the University and the region but also know that not all of it's past is beautiful.


Thanks for keeping an open mind. This is tough stuff. The main thing I wish more understood is there is opportunity for compromise. The history was ugly and should not just be completely cast away, just a more appropriate place.

I for one would like to see a privately ran statewide history museum with all of Alabama/deep south history in it. White, black, indian, pre-USA, CSA, civil war, reconstruction, post reconstruction. All of it is important to know how we got where we are today.

Some stories I need to read up on are the French influences of the gulf coast area. I find French history of Louisiana very fascinating
This post was edited on 6/14 at 1:09 am


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
DeKalb
Member since Jul 2013
65891 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

I for one would like to see a privately ran statewide history museum with all of Alabama/deep south history in it. White, black, indian, pre-USA, CSA, civil war, reconstruction, post reconstruction. All of it is important to know how we got where we are today.

Some stories I need to read up on are the French influences of the gulf coast area. I find French history of Louisiana very fascinating



Couldn't agree more. It is a fascinating mesh of culture, and it makes me sad that the only thing lots of people know about it is slavery and civil rights (and that includes people from the state).

As you noted, coastal Alabama is one of the oldest European areas of modern America, and it's very rarely discussed or marked locally.
This post was edited on 6/14 at 9:27 am


RollTide1987
Alabama Fan
Washington, D.C.
Member since Nov 2009
48035 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

The war was lost in July 1863 at Gettysburg and when Vicksburg fell


Try telling that to citizens of the United States one year later. The war looked no closer to being finished than it had 365 days earlier on the fields of Gettysburg. Adams County, Pennsylvania and the Gettysburg National Battlefield have done a fantastic job over the years with retroactively making Gettysburg THE turning point of the Civil War, but even the licensed battlefield guides who take guests on battlefield tours there will tell you that reputation is historically overrated. Talk to 10 different Civil War historians and they will give you 10 different turning points. For example, the most accomplished and famous scholar of the modern era, James McPherson, will tell you that Antietam was the true turning point of the conflict. Gordon C. Rhea will point to the aftermath of the Wilderness as the absolute point where the Confederacy was doomed to ultimate defeat. I have also seen arguments for Shiloh and the Peninsula Campaign due to the fact that the "gloves came off" so to speak after each one of those failed campaigns, bringing the full industrial might of the United States to bear against the Confederacy. Vicksburg and Gettysburg are obviously listed as turning points as well, but both Union victories were followed by Union setbacks at Chickamauga and Mine Run respectively.

After Gettysburg in can definitely be said that the South no longer had the ability to win the war outright, however they still had the ability to force the United States to the negotiating table by making the war appear unwinnable for the Union. This almost came to fruition after the bloody battles in northern and central Virginia from May-July 1864. If not for the successes at Mobile Bay and Atlanta, it's very likely Lincoln loses to McClellan in November and the new Democratic majority sues for a negotiated peace - thus granting the Confederacy its independence.



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stomp
Alabama Fan
Bama
Member since Nov 2014
2932 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

It is a fascinating mesh of culture, and it makes me sad that the only thing lots of people know about it is slavery and civil rights (and that includes people from the state).


I think part of that is just how painful and long reaching that era was for black folks. My grandfather was born in the 1920s and was fearful of his boyhood home of Limestone county because of shell shock of the 1930s-60s. His best friend was killed in the 1946 Athens race riots. That fear and perspective trickles down to future generations, and the ugly side becomes the centerpiece of the black perspective of that era.

I think if southern whites further explained the "heritage not hate" angle, and showed more empathy on why black people can't see past the ugly side of their heritage, it would go a long way. It's hard work on both sides, just like a marriage.

I've always wanted to learn more of the Confederacy, and I think I'm getting more emotionally mature enough to start researching beyond the surface.

Check out this video.

LINK
This post was edited on 6/14 at 11:33 am


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7438 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

It is a fascinating mesh of culture, and it makes me sad that the only thing lots of people know about it is slavery and civil rights (and that includes people from the state).


It is because history is written by the victors. Our founding fathers are praised throughout history classes and books in this country, though they owned slaves and committed treason as well. But those injustices are overlooked because it does not fit the narrative we want to support and have celebrated for so many years. The civil war it becomes the justification for the war and the outcome. So of course it is an issue that has to be resolved to justify the narrative of the victors.

We celebrate Thanksgiving in this country even though the reality of the event was the Native Americans "last supper". But again the narrative is scripted by the victors.



SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
DeKalb
Member since Jul 2013
65891 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

I think part of that is just how painful and long reaching that era was for black folks. My grandfather was born in the 1920s and was fearful of his boyhood home of Limestone county because of shell shock of the 1930s-60s. His best friend was killed in the 1946 Athens race riots. That fear and perspective trickles down to future generations, and the ugly side becomes the centerpiece of the black perspective of that era.


Which is absolutely reasonable and should be made clear via historical teaching in class.

We've already gotten in the weeds on this stuff (which is great), but we could have 25 more pages about how desensitized the discussions/historical accounts of slavery and Jim Crowe are.


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SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
DeKalb
Member since Jul 2013
65891 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:


It is because history is written by the victors. Our founding fathers are praised throughout history classes and books in this country, though they owned slaves and committed treason as well. But those injustices are overlooked because it does not fit the narrative we want to support and have celebrated for so many years. The civil war it becomes the justification for the war and the outcome. So of course it is an issue that has to be resolved to justify the narrative of the victors.

We celebrate Thanksgiving in this country even though the reality of the event was the Native Americans "last supper". But again the narrative is scripted by the victors.


Yep

I do want to add that I'm not sure I came across very clearly. I was not, in any way, attempting to say we spend too much time on the civil rights movement and/or slavery. I was only noting how I wish some of the earlier histories of Alabama (and other parts of the region) were more widely discussed/known, as some of the earlier colonial/discovery era stories are in the upper South and New England.

But, as you noted, the "victors" were the English, and the old history of settlement is Native and French/Spanish.


Cobrasize
Alabama Fan
Birmingham
Member since Jun 2013
40458 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
I’d also just like to add, folks back then were just tough as hell My gosh, I don’t know how they made it.


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
DeKalb
Member since Jul 2013
65891 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

I’d also just like to add, folks back then were just tough as hell My gosh, I don’t know how they made it.



Just fvckin insane. I'm reading the McCullough book "Pioneers" right now about the first settlers of Ohio.

It just makes me feel like a giant, doughboy pvssy.


Cobrasize
Alabama Fan
Birmingham
Member since Jun 2013
40458 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
Without a doubt As bad as it is to read about, your know that it was so much worse I’m a clean freak about hygiene, I can’t even imagine the smells happening


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jatebe
Alabama Fan
Queen of Links
Member since Oct 2008
16111 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
I didn't know where to put this picture, but it jumped out at me.

With all that's going on around the country, I found this picture of the students at an Alabama football game interesting. Bama needs to get more minorities.

Can you spot the one black guy?



RollTide4Ever
Harvard Fan
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
14181 posts
 Online 

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
Found him in 2 seconds.

There are also possibly two Asians in that crowd.



moester75
Alabama Fan
Member since Oct 2018
1312 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
Hahahaha the grey hoodie it took me longer.


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jatebe
Alabama Fan
Queen of Links
Member since Oct 2008
16111 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
The 5 guys to the left of the black guy reminds me of Animal House Delta Tau Chi Fraternity, with the one with the tan jacket Bluto (Belushi).


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auisssa
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
2675 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
Posting one picture is goofy. Walk around campus. We have a very diverse student body. Here are the stats:

Race Percent of Students
White 78%
Black 11%
Hispanic 4%
Asian 1%
Two or more races 3%
International 2%

That's not far off from the USA breakdown (with the exception of Hispanic and Asian)

White alone, 76.5%
Black or African American alone, 13.4%
Asian alone, 5.9%
Two or More Races, 2.7%
Hispanic or Latino, 18.3%


RollTide1987
Alabama Fan
Washington, D.C.
Member since Nov 2009
48035 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

We have a very diverse student body.


And sadly more and more are coming from out-of-state. In 2018, 59% of the 33,000 enrolled undergrads were not native to the state of Alabama.



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jatebe
Alabama Fan
Queen of Links
Member since Oct 2008
16111 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

Posting one picture is goofy. Walk around campus. We have a very diverse student body. Here are the stats:
Maybe so. But it looks bad. May need to get more blacks into the white fraternities and sororities.

Or, at least, get the black students more interested in attending more football games.


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The Spleen
Alabama Fan
Member since Dec 2010
29252 posts
 Online 

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

Posting one picture is goofy.



Especially when the pic appears to be of the block seating area, which is dominated by predominantly white fraternities.

I think the University does a pretty good job attracting a diverse student body.


Robot Santa
SMU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
34285 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:


I think the University does a pretty good job attracting a diverse student body.


Especially compared to the Lee County Cow College, where half of the black student population is on football scholarship. Our student demographics are fairly typical of a large state university in the Deep South. Whether anyone thinks that is a problem is another discussion, but that would be a widespread problem rather than a University of Alabama problem.
This post was edited on 6/15 at 10:41 am


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TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7438 posts

re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
quote:

Yep

I do want to add that I'm not sure I came across very clearly. I was not, in any way, attempting to say we spend too much time on the civil rights movement and/or slavery. I was only noting how I wish some of the earlier histories of Alabama (and other parts of the region) were more widely discussed/known, as some of the earlier colonial/discovery era stories are in the upper South and New England.

But, as you noted, the "victors" were the English, and the old history of settlement is Native and French/Spanish.


All good as I was actually just adding to what you had said. I agree


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