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Message
re: UA back to school plan... Shame the unvaccinated kids
Posted on 7/27/21 at 11:22 pm to rushball
Posted on 7/27/21 at 11:22 pm to rushball
quote:
rushball
Dude, with all due respect, take a break.
The results of all of this will come out in time.
There are legitimate scientific experiments proving your points and you are only posting the very few available. Your "opponents" have mountains of anecdotal evidence which cannot be verified, but it is what it is.
My advice to you is to quit posting (just here mind you, we got motherfricking football in 40 days), let your positions speak for themselves and if they prove to be correct, hammer the frick out of your critics.
You have my guarantee you won't be banned if it comes to fruition.
This post was edited on 7/27/21 at 11:27 pm
2
Posted on 7/27/21 at 11:52 pm to TideSaint
quote:
I doubt any double masking fellas will be rolling up on a dude who is 6'4" and weighs 225 pounds.
I’m giving folks their “right” to back up what they say around here.
Spleen will shame me. I’m fine with that, come do it. Others will label me as an outcast, and that’s fine, do it. Just don’t talk one way on the internet and never confront someone in person. If you wore a mask and there was a mask mandate, say something! Don’t be a coward, like I know the majority of these outspoken vaccinated people are. I won’t get this vaccine, and it isn’t a political thing, I just don’t trust it. If you don’t like that, confront me. Let’s not pussyfoot around. Posted on 7/27/21 at 11:54 pm to TideSaint
Hey Saint, How ya liking Texas?? We miss ya back in the Motherland, but hope you’ll be back soon!
Posted on 7/27/21 at 11:57 pm to TideSaint
shite
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 12:00 am
Posted on 7/28/21 at 6:02 am to Cobrasize
Love when we reach the “say it to my face” stage of the discourse on a mostly anonymous internet message board. Knowing full well no sane person gives a shite enough to meet a stranger in real life over some hurty words on the Internet, so they then can claim some weird male bravado victory.
Real high brow stuff.
Real high brow stuff.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 6:16 am to The Spleen
Posted on 7/28/21 at 7:49 am to rushball
quote:
to conclude, you and everyone here who really thought the initial meme posted was but an ''opinion'' then well, youre welcome. you are in fact part of nothing more than an unproven experiment, and to those who were insistent on being justified for wanting to shame kids or anyone for not taking this unproven sack of garbage, im still glad you took it.
You have to be either mentally incapable of any comprehension or just an idiot.
You have twice made an attack towards me and both times I have asked you to quote the post you said I posted but you can not because I did not.
quote:
you are in fact part of nothing more than an unproven experiment
Again another idiotic assumption from you because I am not a part of the experiment as you are assuming I have taken the vaccine which I have not. Again you are clueless.
And I have yet to shame any kid or person for taking or not taking the vaccine. I have stated clearly that it is everyone's choice and nothing more. But idiots like you can not see past their own delusion and have to attack people because of their inability to persuade people of their perceived reality.
So if you want to know why people like myself doubt your OPINION and any validity behind it is because you have continually made false assumptions and accusations towards posters like myself on this board. So when you can come to grips with reality and can actually comprehend what someone is saying with the ability to actually respond to what they actually said maybe someone will take you serious.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 7:56 am to TideSaint
quote:
They got a taste of control and are fighting like hell to maintain it.
And here we go now the CDC is issuing a statement and once again changing their stance by recommending vaccinated people to wear mask indoor. Two months ago they said vaccinated people did need to wear them indoors.
The CDC is completely clueless
Posted on 7/28/21 at 8:04 am to TideWarrior
I'll just add in my nitwit thoughts here
(1) I am 100%, absolutely opposed to the government (at any level) forcing people to take shots/vaccines. End of story, no equivocation. Any "shaming" of people for it is ridiculous for a number of reasons, mainly being everyone is different (medically, antibodies if they had it, etc.) and it won't actually produce the desired result. However, we don't make decisions in 2021 based on desired result, we make them based on how it will make us feel (righteous!).
(2) The government, parts of the federal bureaucracy and certain states (which were predictable) have absolutely without a doubt gotten a taste of power and have no plans on giving it back.
(3) Private enterprise is completely within their rights to say what they require their employees to do and force those who don't to abide by different standards of conduct than those that do. This falls in line with everything most pro-business people have been arguing for for the better part of 2 decades.
(4) A lot of these memes and articles being posted are 20-40% truth, 60-80% falsehood. They contain bits of truth/reasonable questioning and then large amounts of proven false narrative. It's not helping. At all. And a lot of it is being introduced by state actors who know it isn't helping and are happy to pile on.
(5) The reason the above gain traction is because of:
(a) The American Government's health care infrastructure, from the Surgeon General to the NIH to the CDC's abysmal failure during this entire ordeal, from start to finish, including lying to Americans "for their own good" from the very start with the mask issue. People don't trust them, and they don't trust them because they were openly lied to from the start. You don't start a relationship on a lie based around the fact that you don't trust people, and that's basically what the US Health Establishment did in March/April with the mask situation.
(b) Politicians politicking every bit of this, refusing to stick to the same intellectual arguments and moving from one side (don't trust this vaccine) to the other (if you don't trust this vaccine you are a crazy person who is killing everyone), and the national media has absolutely no desire to ask them why their position has shifted (mainly because the media's narrative has also shifted).
All in all, this pandemic has been a masterclass in exposing the rot of modern America from the top down. It has shown that we are Rome circa 120 BC, the era of the Gracchi, and that this whole American experiment is close to entering a death spiral.
Other than that - happy morning to everyone!
(1) I am 100%, absolutely opposed to the government (at any level) forcing people to take shots/vaccines. End of story, no equivocation. Any "shaming" of people for it is ridiculous for a number of reasons, mainly being everyone is different (medically, antibodies if they had it, etc.) and it won't actually produce the desired result. However, we don't make decisions in 2021 based on desired result, we make them based on how it will make us feel (righteous!).
(2) The government, parts of the federal bureaucracy and certain states (which were predictable) have absolutely without a doubt gotten a taste of power and have no plans on giving it back.
(3) Private enterprise is completely within their rights to say what they require their employees to do and force those who don't to abide by different standards of conduct than those that do. This falls in line with everything most pro-business people have been arguing for for the better part of 2 decades.
(4) A lot of these memes and articles being posted are 20-40% truth, 60-80% falsehood. They contain bits of truth/reasonable questioning and then large amounts of proven false narrative. It's not helping. At all. And a lot of it is being introduced by state actors who know it isn't helping and are happy to pile on.
(5) The reason the above gain traction is because of:
(a) The American Government's health care infrastructure, from the Surgeon General to the NIH to the CDC's abysmal failure during this entire ordeal, from start to finish, including lying to Americans "for their own good" from the very start with the mask issue. People don't trust them, and they don't trust them because they were openly lied to from the start. You don't start a relationship on a lie based around the fact that you don't trust people, and that's basically what the US Health Establishment did in March/April with the mask situation.
(b) Politicians politicking every bit of this, refusing to stick to the same intellectual arguments and moving from one side (don't trust this vaccine) to the other (if you don't trust this vaccine you are a crazy person who is killing everyone), and the national media has absolutely no desire to ask them why their position has shifted (mainly because the media's narrative has also shifted).
All in all, this pandemic has been a masterclass in exposing the rot of modern America from the top down. It has shown that we are Rome circa 120 BC, the era of the Gracchi, and that this whole American experiment is close to entering a death spiral.
Other than that - happy morning to everyone!
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 8:20 am
Posted on 7/28/21 at 8:06 am to bogeypro
If i am confident in my decision not to be vaccinated (i am vaccinated) then why would i be ashamed at all , in any circumstance?
Posted on 7/28/21 at 8:18 am to SummerOfGeorge
I gave you an upvote
Posted on 7/28/21 at 8:49 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
(1) I am 100%, absolutely opposed to the government (at any level) forcing people to take shots/vaccines. End of story, no equivocation.
We effectively already have this with several immunizations and vaccines. Try going to school, public or private, without the proper immunizations and see how far you get. It's certainly not the same as a legislative body mandating it, but it's not far from that. And certainly there are some exceptions for some people.
quote:
Any "shaming" of people for it is ridiculous for a number of reasons
Let me give some more context to my shaming comment. It was primarily aimed at students in light of this release from the University. College students generally participate in activities that can heavily contribute to spread. Going to crowded bars, house parties, hooking up, etc. Not shaming that as they should do all that - it's what college is about. But they also go to local restaurants and grocery stores and put local residents at risk. Now, if I was a student and read that advisory, I'd want to get vaccinated. I wouldn't risk flunking out of a semester to make some political point. At this point, the documented risk from Covid is still exponentially higher than the documented risk of getting the vaccine.
quote:
it won't actually produce the desired result.
And I 100% disagree with this. The desired result is minimizing Covid to the point where normal life can resume. The best way to reach that point is herd immunity, and the safest way to reach herd immunity is with the vaccine. Saying that I recognize that we're likely never going to reach full herd immunity where Covid is completely eradicated. But, with herd immunity we will likely reach a point where hospitals are not at risk of being overwhelmed with cases when there is a localized outbreak.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:00 am to The Spleen
quote:
We effectively already have this with several immunizations and vaccines. Try going to school, public or private, without the proper immunizations and see how far you get. It's certainly not the same as a legislative body mandating it, but it's not far from that. And certainly there are some exceptions for some people.
Ironically this was tested pretty seriously in the years leading up to the pandemic and surprisingly the enforcement was much less toothy than most thought it was. And that's one of the reasons that California, Washington and metro New York started seeing whooping cough, measles and mumps in 2019 - because of the anti-vax movement.
quote:
“The reason measles is coming back is that a critical number of parents have chosen not to vaccinate their children,’’ said Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “If you get to a few thousand cases, you’ll start to see children die of measles again.’’
The battle over whether public schools could require vaccinations for attendance was being fought in the various state and federal district courts right up until COVID started.
quote:
Let me give some more context to my shaming comment. It was primarily aimed at students in light of this release from the University. College students generally participate in activities that can heavily contribute to spread. Going to crowded bars, house parties, hooking up, etc. Not shaming that as they should do all that - it's what college is about. But they also go to local restaurants and grocery stores and put local residents at risk. Now, if I was a student and read that advisory, I'd want to get vaccinated. I wouldn't risk flunking out of a semester to make some political point. At this point, the documented risk from Covid is still exponentially higher than the documented risk of getting the vaccine.
Hey, I'm with you. I just don't see shaming people (especially when it comes from elected officials, unelected bureaucrats, school officials or media personalities) as a method that is going to achieve the desired result - vaccinating enough people to turn the virus into sniffles and basically destroy it's ability to kill. I think it does the opposite - makes people who don't trust the authorities on this issue (for some legitimate and some ridiculous reasons) dig in further.
quote:
And I 100% disagree with this. The desired result is minimizing Covid to the point where normal life can resume. The best way to reach that point is herd immunity, and the safest way to reach herd immunity is with the vaccine. Saying that I recognize that we're likely never going to reach full herd immunity where Covid is completely eradicated. But, with herd immunity we will likely reach a point where hospitals are not at risk of being overwhelmed with cases when there is a localized outbreak.
I think you misunderstood what desired result I was implying. The desired result I was discussing was "make people who don't want to vaccinate get vaccinated". Not, "if we get a lot of people vaccinated then we have achieved the desired result".
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 9:10 am
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:13 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I just don't see shaming people (especially when it comes from elected officials, unelected bureaucrats, school officials or media personalities) as a method that is going to achieve the desired result - vaccinating enough people to turn the virus into sniffles and basically destroy it's ability to kill. I think it does the opposite - makes people who don't trust the authorities on this issue (for some legitimate and some ridiculous reasons) dig in further.
Shaming them isn't going to be effective, but neither is presenting them with a reasoned, evidence based explanation for why they should do something. America has reached an impasse, and reconciliation is no longer possible. That applies to literally every matter of public policy, not just vaccines.
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 9:14 am
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:14 am to Robot Santa
quote:
American has reached an impasse, and reconciliation is no longer possible. That applies to literally every matter of public policy, not just vaccines.
Exactomundo
quote:
Political norms were heeded; and when the government ran into a new problem, it would amend itself to keep working. For over 300 years, the republic operated this way. There was no political violence, land theft or capital punishment, because those went against the political norms Rome had established.
Then, in 133 B.C.E., Rome experienced its first political murder in the history of the republic. Senators were angry that Tiberius Gracchus, an elected official who had tried to redistribute land to the poor, was seeking a second term as tribune of the plebs. During a fight that broke out between Tiberius’s followers and opponents, senators beat him to death with wooden chairs and helped murder nearly 300 of his followers.
Political violence increased in the 80s B.C.E., when political factions started stealing people’s land and killing their enemies. In 44, senators murdered Augustus’ great-uncle Julius Caesar after he unconstitutionally named himself dictator for life.
Non-violent political dysfunction increased during this time, too. During the 60s B.C.E., a senator named Cato the Younger had constantly and unnecessarily used procedural delays to block the senate from voting on legislation he did not like for years. Other senators went along with this because they considered Cato a moral leader.
In 59 B.C.E., one of the consuls working with Cato even tried to shut down all public business for the entire year by declaring each day of the year a religious holiday.
As Rome grew, it periodically amended its republic to keep it functioning. However, by the time of Cato the Younger, the republic had functioned so well for so long that a lot of people took its ability to survive for granted. And by the time Augustus took power, most people didn’t remember a time before political violence, land theft and government dysfunction were the norm.
Augustus realized that his subjects were traumatized by the status quo. His winning tactic was to “promise that the rule of law would return—and that no one would be executed for no reason and no one’s property would be stolen,” says Watts. “There were a lot of people who were willing to accept that in exchange for the right to have what we would see as political freedom.” In other words, a lot of Romans were okay with Augustus assuming supreme control as long as he kept the peace—never mind that he had actually contributed to the violence and property thefts he now claimed only he could fix. Five years into his rule, Augustus bragged: “I freed all people from the fear and danger they experienced using my own funds.”
I'm not big on over the top declarations of things being awful ("Nazis", "Slavery", "Communists")..........but I'm not sure how any student of history looks at America in 2021 and doesn't see the Roman Republic of the last 100-200 years BC.
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 9:24 am
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:15 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Hey, I'm with you. I just don't see shaming people (especially when it comes from elected officials, unelected bureaucrats, school officials or media personalities) as a method that is going to achieve the desired result - vaccinating enough people to turn the virus into sniffles and basically destroy it's ability to kill. I think it does the opposite - makes people who don't trust the authorities on this issue (for some legitimate and some ridiculous reasons) dig in further.
True, and I also didn't read the University's release as shaming anyone. They just laid out how they were going to handle things this semester in light of the virus and the recent law the state passed.
quote:
I think you misunderstood what desired result I was implying. The desired result I was discussing was "make people who don't want to vaccinate get vaccinated". Not, "if we get a lot of people vaccinated then we have achieved the desired result".
I did indeed. My bad.
I don't think shaming is going to work on the vast majority of holdouts. They're pretty entrenched in their position, and likely the only thing that will move them is someone close to them dying or coming close to dying from it themselves. My doing it on here is mostly out of frustration that we're back to a position where mask/social distancing mandates are being discussed again when there is a very safe option out there that could have helped prevent that from happening. And I don't fully blame those holdouts, but moreso the bad faith liars that have fed them blatant misinformation and lies.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:19 am to The Spleen
quote:
At this point, the documented risk from Covid is still exponentially higher than the documented risk of getting the vaccine.
Only true for certain populations. If you’re college aged and not obese/overweight, don’t have asthma, or don’t have a compromised immune system, the data doesn’t support this statement.
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 9:20 am
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:20 am to The Spleen
I honestly think all of this comes down to what Robot stated plainly - none of it matters. Discussion is dead, intellectual review is dead, applying the same standard of right/wrong/rational to actions of people you like and dislike is dead, etc, etc.
That isn't even pro or anti vaccine, it's the entire nature of the COVID era and what it laid bare with every aspect of it. We're broken. Outside of some sort of truly existential threat to the nation that resets things, I don't see anything fixing it.
That isn't even pro or anti vaccine, it's the entire nature of the COVID era and what it laid bare with every aspect of it. We're broken. Outside of some sort of truly existential threat to the nation that resets things, I don't see anything fixing it.
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 9:27 am
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:28 am to HighTide_ATL
quote:
Only true for certain populations. If you’re college aged and not obese/overweight, don’t have asthma, or don’t have a compromised immune system, the data doesn’t support this statement.
My point wasn't entirely about the risk at the individual level. I'm a healthy person and not all that at risk, but I go to places regularly where I can encounter people that are at higher risk.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:42 am to The Spleen
quote:
And I don't fully blame those holdouts, but moreso the bad faith liars that have fed them blatant misinformation and lies.
How do we address that issue though? That's the big question of our time. The Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, and even the Iranians all operate intelligence outfits that are specifically tasked with spreading disinformation and sowing discord via the internet. We know this. It isn't debatable. Millions of people have been fully compromised by their efforts though and those "sources" are all they trust. As great as it would be if we could, we can't just block those countries from the internet. Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms combat it half-heartedly on a good day because they know how much revenue is generated by the people who buy into and spread that stuff. So really, what do we do about it? At this point I'm not sure there is anything that can be done and I fear that it will take either an outright civil war or some kind of global conflict between NATO and the aforementioned countries to change anything.
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