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re: Saban's comments on the defense post-South Carolina

Posted on 9/18/19 at 1:28 pm to
Posted by Sauron
Birmingham
Member since Dec 2015
994 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

Based on things Saban has said I sense that it may be Saban moreso than Golding who's wanted to keep the Front-7 calls more vanilla (minimal stunting & blitzing) in the early going while the freshman staryers are learning on the job. Either way, I'm hopeful i's just a temporary measure that's going away pretty soon.


I think this is what's happening. What I think some folks are forgetting is that even an overly simplified defense has multiple checks, reads and calls to make to avoid being burned over and over by simple misdirection plays. Even something like "your job on 3rd and 10 is go to get the QB" leaves a defense open to a fairly basic draw or shuttle pass.

It's just not rational at this point in the year to expect to see a typical Alabama defense, given the restrictions / handicaps we've been dealt. I DO think and hope it will get better throughout the year.
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

Nothing you've postrd has gone over my head. And I've actually been in agreement with you that a simpler agressive attacking Front-7 scheme that promotes playing fast and getting backfield penetration is more effective in defending HUNH spread offenses.

My only remarks that don't seem to mesh with your thinking is that I think it's premature to judge that Golding doesn't understand, support or prefer that approach. That one difference of opinion seems to have rustled you quite a bit for some reason.

However, if Golding doesn't transition the Front-7 scheme, game plans play calling, etc. in that direction as the freshman starters get settled in, then I'll probably become as concetned about Golding as you already are.


Then, it's probably just best to say that. Cause that summation you were laying out there needs some work.

And I'm in agreement that there's not much any of us can do about this but hope for the best. This is on Golding's plate to get done.

But the next time Alabama's defense is left on the field for almost 90 plays, I'm sure a ton of Bama fans will once again be looking for the meaning of life, as we know it.
Posted by JB Bama
Tuscaloosa, AL
Member since Sep 2008
2669 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 1:42 pm to
With a prolific offense it just doesn't make sense to play bend but don't break. You let the other team dictate tempo. When your defense is your weakness you don't want them tired in the 4th quarter.

With our offense it makes more sense to be hyper aggressive and know that every takeaway is going to be a 3 or 6(maybe 7) point swing. I'd rather leave the strength of this D (our corners and secondary) on islands and bring lots of pressure on Run and Pass blitzes and force offenses to cause mistakes that put them behind the chains, and occasionally give up big plays and quick TDs. Our defense is our weakness so let's keep them rested and put the pressure on our offense to maintain dominance.
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 1:43 pm
Posted by tattoo
Fantasy Island
Member since Oct 2017
1804 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 9:57 pm to
quote:

With a prolific offense it just doesn't make sense to play bend but don't break. You let the other team dictate tempo. When your defense is your weakness you don't want them tired in the 4th quarter.

With our offense it makes more sense to be hyper aggressive and know that every takeaway is going to be a 3 or 6(maybe 7) point swing. I'd rather leave the strength of this D (our corners and secondary) on islands and bring lots of pressure on Run and Pass blitzes and force offenses to cause mistakes that put them behind the chains, and occasionally give up big plays and quick TDs. Our defense is our weakness so let's keep them rested and put the pressure on our offense to maintain dominance.


Sure it does. It forces the opp to march more slowly down the field without making a mistake. Then if they are effective enough to make it to the RZ, the shorter field gives an advantage to the D. This happened vs USCe: 3 FGs, 1 TO, 2 TO on downs, 1 TD til garbage time. It was relatively effective. It's what Clemson did in the NCG last year. In fact, til the garbage time TD, the score was almost identical 47-16.

Saban stated this is what Bama did and he called it effective. This is not the long term solution, but CNS felt this was the approach to take with the youth on D. He stated these things in his press conf. Come on guys.
Posted by tider04
North Carolina
Member since Oct 2007
5606 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 10:03 pm to
Exactly. Nobody loves watching a bend but don’t break defense. It’s frustrating as frick. But the end goal is to win the game and it CAN be effective when you have an elite offense. Clemson mauled us in the natty doing a very similar thing.
Posted by JB Bama
Tuscaloosa, AL
Member since Sep 2008
2669 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 9:24 am to
We don't have the roster depth to play 85 plays of defense against every SEC team with a pulse.

We're here to win all the games not just one.
Posted by Tider95
Tuscaloosa
Member since Dec 2017
2137 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 10:17 am to
quote:

We don't have the roster depth to play 85 plays of defense against every SEC team with a pulse.

We're here to win all the games not just one.

I really wonder about the reading comprehension of some of our posters... Literally 7 pages discussing how Saban has openly been talking about why they made these decisions, clearly showing it was at least his preferred way of playing so many freshmen in game 3.

No one wants to look like an idiot calling out Saban so instead we circle around Golding who literally was more aggresive than Pruitt in his previous DC stints as though he is some Kirby Smart like conservative DC. And then we get stuff like this where someone with no sense of progression or growth talks about game 3 game planning like its game 15

Edit: Also side note, another consistent theme noted here is that Venables literally played this exact style with his defense last year, yet 7 pages later we are ignoring that success and going back to the same baseless opinions.
This post was edited on 9/19/19 at 10:26 am
Posted by BamaGradinTn
Murfreesboro
Member since Dec 2008
26956 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 11:10 am to
quote:

But Pruitt's aggressive style, we finished #3 in the nation in total defense in 2016 and #1 in total defense in 2017. I would rather err on the side of being aggressive vs spread teams.


I like being aggressive also, but we haven't had the talent Pruitt had since Pruitt left.
Posted by Spread
Alabama
Member since Aug 2012
1150 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

I knew somebody would take the bait!



Totally different levels of competition in this comparison... one was a 14-0 team with its starting QB (a Heisman Trophy finalist, BTW), the other a 1-1 team playing a TF backup QB.
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 1:15 pm to
quote:


I really wonder about the reading comprehension of some of our posters... Literally 7 pages discussing how Saban has openly been talking about why they made these decisions, clearly showing it was at least his preferred way of playing so many freshmen in game 3.

No one wants to look like an idiot calling out Saban so instead we circle around Golding who literally was more aggresive than Pruitt in his previous DC stints as though he is some Kirby Smart like conservative DC. And then we get stuff like this where someone with no sense of progression or growth talks about game 3 game planning like its game 15


The issue I have with who's responsible for calling the D is seeing how much our defense has changed with its aggressive approach between Smart and Pruitt. Kirby blitzed 19% of the time and was big on rushing 3 and 4, in the DL. When Kirby left Bama to become HC at Georgia, he has remained true to his defensive values and still does not blitz that often.

I assume at this point he doesn't fear retribution from coach Saban about his career projection and we can honestly conclude that Kirby is just a defensive, conservative, kind of guy. So, how do we know he wasn't running exactly what he wanted to run at Alabama?

Jeremy Pruitt comes in and his defensive value system is totally different from Smarts and he's blitzing about 48% of the time. Coach Saban was still signing his paycheck each week. Apparently got along fine with Pruitt's philosophy and praised his ability to simplify his own defensive concepts and I quoted you the article.

Now, you want us to work off the principle that Golding isn't his own man. That these aren't his concepts and represent his value system going forward. Well, good for him, cause he's making a hell of a lot of money for calling signals for coach Saban.

I don't buy that. History doesn't say that. Even our OCs all have had their own flair and few have been anything like the other. From Applewhite to McElwain, to Nuss, to Kiffin to Daboll to Locksley to Sark, no way coach Saban is not letting all these guys use their own imagination and talent to ride by the seat of their pants on gameday and call what they see in real-time.

Posted by prevatt33
Member since Dec 2011
2837 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

Totally different levels of competition in this comparison... one was a 14-0 team with its starting QB (a Heisman Trophy finalist, BTW), the other a 1-1 team playing a TF backup QB.


No offense and I get your point to a degree, but life is not a video game. My senior year of HS, our 3-7 team made the playoffs and in the first round traveled to the undefeated #2 team in our classification - and handed them an L. Why? We were the better team that day and played awesome in the second half.

My point is that unless you were on the field playing against SoCar last Saturday, you as a fan have no idea what kind of opponent they were that day. Many teams' principle issue is consistency, and when they put it together for 4 quarters, they are a really good team. For all you know, SoCar "put it together" last week and played like a top-15 team and still lost by 4 scores. Or for all you know, they played like a bottom 20 team. And you as a fan would have no idea. Well, a little idea from penalties and obvious things like missed tackles, but still - little idea.

And as a side note, anyone with half a brain can see Helinski is a pretty good QB right now, and his age or depth chart status 2 weeks ago means nothing.

And so I encourage all of our loyal Bama fans on this board to remember that they have a spectator's perspective and nothing more. And this spectator's perspective gives you a fraction of a fraction of the info and expertise that one gets as the competitor in question. And so most of you - you don't know what you think you know. Not. Even. Close. You're just a really opinionated onlooker who's watching and criticizing experts in their field.
This post was edited on 9/19/19 at 1:32 pm
Posted by ReauxlTide222
St. Petersburg
Member since Nov 2010
83443 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

With our offense it makes more sense to be hyper aggressive and know that every takeaway is going to be a 3 or 6(maybe 7) point swing. I'd rather leave the strength of this D (our corners and secondary) on islands and bring lots of pressure on Run and Pass blitzes and force offenses to cause mistakes that put them behind the chains, and occasionally give up big plays and quick TDs. Our defense is our weakness so let's keep them rested and put the pressure on our offense to maintain dominance.
This is EXACTLY how I feel.

If they can’t tackle or can’t consistently be in the right spots to prevent big plays, might as well counter that with extremely aggressive play.
Posted by ReauxlTide222
St. Petersburg
Member since Nov 2010
83443 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

Sure it does. It forces the opp to march more slowly down the field without making a mistake.
Who is making mistakes? Teams are pounding the ball down their faces.
quote:

Then if they are effective enough to make it to the RZ, the shorter field gives an advantage to the D.
Who is getting the ball pounded down their faces.

Better teams will have more success than South Carolina did when they get into the Redzone.
Posted by Tider95
Tuscaloosa
Member since Dec 2017
2137 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

Who is making mistakes? Teams are pounding the ball down their faces.

And taking time off the clock to do so. Bend dont break has to hold teams below 30 over the course of the game, thats it.
Posted by ReauxlTide222
St. Petersburg
Member since Nov 2010
83443 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 1:56 pm to
What I’m saying is I think it’s logical to think Georgia or LSU or some of these better teams won’t just get into the Redzone and be lost like South Carolina.

Burrow will be launching passes to their big WRs on top of them trying to pound it against what looks like a defense that is lost and sitting back on its heels.

Idk what the best plan is. But I know I’d like to see a hyper aggressive defense give up big plays than a bend but don’t break defense that breaks against the top teams.
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

And taking time off the clock to do so. Bend dont break has to hold teams below 30 over the course of the game, that's it.


Pressure bust pipes and attitude wins games. You hit the QB in the mouth a few times and he starts hearing footsteps when there aren't any. He starts short-arming passes 10 yards downfield for no apparent reason. Instead of setting up in the pocket his feet start moving and instead of pushing off the correct leg his happy feet are throwing off the back leg as he starts anticipating the next hit. Life gets a lot easier when QBs feel the pain.

Kirby wanted to surround his prey. Pruitt wanted to eat his spleen. When it's done right football is a nasty, physical sport and seldom comes down to the team with the best Xs and Os.
Posted by Tider95
Tuscaloosa
Member since Dec 2017
2137 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

Pressure bust pipes and attitude wins games. You hit the QB in the mouth a few times and he starts hearing footsteps when there aren't any. He starts short-arming passes 10 yards downfield for no apparent reason. Instead of setting up in the pocket his feet start moving and instead of pushing off the correct leg his happy feet are throwing off the back leg as he starts anticipating the next hit. Life gets a lot easier when QBs feel the pain.


Please keep feeding me coach speak. It really supports your nonsense argument.
This post was edited on 9/19/19 at 2:06 pm
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

Please keep feeding me coach speak. It really supports your nonsense argument.



Only if you keep reassuring all of us everything's going to be alright as long as we stay determined to repeat the past.
Posted by Tider95
Tuscaloosa
Member since Dec 2017
2137 posts
Posted on 9/19/19 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

Only if you keep reassuring all of us everything's going to be alright as long as we stay determined to repeat the past.

Posted by Spread
Alabama
Member since Aug 2012
1150 posts
Posted on 9/20/19 at 8:03 am to
quote:

No offense and I get your point to a degree, but life is not a video game.


I'm not sure I get your point about "life being a video game," but it doesn't matter because I haven't played a video game in over 20 years and certainly don't live life like it's a video game. Furthermore, you have no idea what my background is or how much I know about football. You presume to know much more than others even when you have never met those people in person and know nothing about them. Dabo Swinney was selling insurance just prior to joining Clemson's staff, and you probably would have (wrongly) thought you knew much more about football than he did if you had discussed football with him at that point.

quote:

I get your point to a degree


Because it's a valid point. A true freshman, starting his second game with a middle-of-the-road SEC team that had already lost to a bad ACC team, made our defense look very average.

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