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re: Saban's comments on the defense post-South Carolina

Posted on 9/18/19 at 9:48 am to
Posted by bamabaum
Montgomery, AL
Member since Jul 2014
1220 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 9:48 am to
quote:

A lot of SC's chunk plays came from the same play using two pulling OL, which meant SC could get numbers at the point of attack... about a quarter of SC's yardage came on these 6 plays:

If you look at the 33 yard gain, Kaho got pancaked.
Posted by prevatt33
Member since Dec 2011
2837 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 9:56 am to
No, we didn't get much pressure that night. But if Diggs hadn't gotten hurt, Savion "The Liability" Smith wouldn't have been on the field to be picked on all day.

Also, the offense was by far the weaker link that day, and the offense is why we lost. Period.

Clemson's only offense was chunk plays to Savion Smith's man. Outside of that, the D did pretty good.
Posted by OldPete
Georgia
Member since Oct 2013
2804 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 9:57 am to
quote:

The problem with the excuse that our young LB's are the issue is that he also called a shitty game vs Clemson. If it was just this year I could understand the youth being an issue. If he had called a good game last season, I would easily be defending the guy.

When exactly did he start calling plays last year? Even after I heard that he was, I still saw Tosh on the sidelines, apparently sending in signals. As I'm not an insider, I don't know when he started calling the plays nor do I know how much control he had over the D last year. He's the sole DC now so I'll just rate him on how he does this year...
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 9:58 am
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
22589 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 10:00 am to
quote:

When exactly did he start calling plays last year? Even after I heard that he was, I still saw Tosh on the sidelines, apparently sending in signals. As I'm not an insider, I don't know when he started calling the plays nor do I know how much control he had over the D last year. He's the sole DC now so I'll just rate him on how he does this year...


Beats me on the exact time, some say October. I personally wish/hope it's not true, because I thought we were getting rid of the problem, not extending.

Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Beats me on the exact time, some say October. I personally wish/hope it's not true, because I thought we were getting rid of the problem, not extending.

Do you suppose Saban doesn't bother to discuss, review or influence defensive game plans and play calling?
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 10:11 am to
quote:


Both first string MLBs are out for the season; McMillon, whom Golding had praised for his high football IQ and for getting players in the right position, looked like he'd be calling the plays. Then Moses, the best athlete and other MLB capable of calling plays, goes down as well. Now we have 2 starting MLBs that are true freshman; very talented and will probably be great ones in the long run, but they're still trying to learn the defense...



Then let's do them a favor, and get them off the field? Allowing TF QBs to expose them for 4 quarters doesn't seem to be the way to go either. McClain, Hightower, DePriest, Nico Johnson Denzel Deval and a host of other LBers either started or played a ton of football for us as freshmen. We aren't reinventing the wheel either.

quote:

Many fans pine about Pruitt (I liked him at DC as well) but look at the guys we had at MLB (and all over our D for that matter) when Pruitt was here...big difference. How many true freshmen were starting on Bama's D during Pruitt's time as DC? I could be wrong but I can't think of any; with LaBryan Ray out looks like by this weekend we'll have had 5 true freshman starters on D alone (Dale, Harris, Lee, Battle, and Eboigbe). Has that ever happened in the Saban era? Hell, has that ever happened at Alabama ever? While Battle may end up being a spot starter depending on our formation that's still 4 true freshman who look to be consistent starters. If Golding had Foster & Evans (or SDH) at MLB, not to mention Tim Williams & Ryan Anderson on the outside, I'm sure that'd make him a better DC as well...


We were discussing Pruitt's approach to defense. He was in attack mode. Golding had Dylan Moses and Mack Wilson last season. Didn't seem to make him anymore aggressive than this season. I'm pretty much a believer that what you see is what you get.
Posted by Commander Data
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Dec 2016
7289 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 10:24 am to
I agree. You can't tell me that we can't do better than a three man rush on third and long because our guys are young. They are much more likely to make a mistake in coverage than if they got after the quarterback. I don't expect to blitz every passing down but we have been way too conservative. Reminds me of Joe Kines all over again. Some of you may have liked his philosophy but I hated it and I ain't very fond of the one I have seen so far this year.
Posted by Sauron
Birmingham
Member since Dec 2015
994 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 10:28 am to
quote:

Then let's do them a favor, and get them off the field? Allowing TF QBs to expose them for 4 quarters doesn't seem to be the way to go either. McClain, Hightower, DePriest, Nico Johnson Denzel Deval and a host of other LBers either started or played a ton of football for us as freshmen.


This is an asinine comment. How exactly are we supposed to get two freshman ILBs off the field, when they're the best ILBs currently available? We tried subbing out ILBs later in the game, and SC "walked us down the field" and scored a late TD.

The other LBs you mentioned, with the exception of McClain, weren't responsible for calling formations and running the defense when they were freshmen. They also had a ton of experience surrounding them.

quote:

Golding had Dylan Moses and Mack Wilson last season. Didn't seem to make him anymore aggressive than this season. I'm pretty much a believer that what you see is what you get.


I don't know how much Golding actually ran the defense last year. Plus, I'm not convinced either Mack or Dylan were actual field generals who knew the defensive playbook exceptionally well; I think they were / are outstanding athletes who can play the position. Mack, in particular, could make a spectacular play and then be hopelessly out of position on the following play.

As much as I hated losing Dylan Moses to injury, I think the more significant injury was to Josh McMillon. I have no proof, but I believe we'd be a more aggressive defense (which is what you seem to want) if we had McMillon at MLB. Knowing how to get everyone lined up and communicating their responsibilities properly pre-snap is a key to playing fast, loose and aggressive defense.
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
22589 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 10:35 am to
quote:


Do you suppose Saban doesn't bother to discuss, review or influence defensive game plans and play calling?


Do you suppose any of us could get up there and call plays and it would be good because Saban discusses, reviews and has influence over these things?

Why hire anyone at all if this is the case. And why do we see very different approaches from different DC?

I personally think Saban likes to let the DC's do their thing for the most part.
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:01 am to
quote:

This is an asinine comment. How exactly are we supposed to get two freshman ILBs off the field, when they're the best ILBs currently available? We tried subbing out ILBs later in the game, and SC "walked us down the field" and scored a late TD.

The other LBs you mentioned, with the exception of McClain, weren't responsible for calling formations and running the defense when they were freshmen. They also had a ton of experience surrounding them.


Relax, it was just a way of saying, let's get our DEFENSE off the field.

quote:

I don't know how much Golding actually ran the defense last year. Plus, I'm not convinced either Mack or Dylan were actual field generals who knew the defensive playbook exceptionally well; I think they were / are outstanding athletes who can play the position. Mack, in particular, could make a spectacular play and then be hopelessly out of position on the following play.

As much as I hated losing Dylan Moses to injury, I think the more significant injury was to Josh McMillon. I have no proof, but I believe we'd be a more aggressive defense (which is what you seem to want) if we had McMillon at MLB. Knowing how to get everyone lined up and communicating their responsibilities properly pre-snap is a key to playing fast, loose and aggressive defense.



Did you have any problem with Dylan Moses and Mack Wilson when we played LSU or Georgia? Think about that before you get in any hurry to dismiss it. Golding brought us down the home stretch last season as DC and we were still very much the reluctant hero with SPREAD teams.

There were a lot of assistant coaches who got called out for their efforts at the end of last season. When the dust settled Golding and Banks were the only 2 on-field coaches left standing. So far it's back to the future time.
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:01 am to
Do you think Golding is an incompetent DC and the primary cause of Bama's disappointing and substandard defensive performance?
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 11:05 am
Posted by OldPete
Georgia
Member since Oct 2013
2804 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:02 am to
quote:

Then let's do them a favor, and get them off the field?

Fine. Who do you suggest we replace them with?

quote:

McClain, Hightower, DePriest, Nico Johnson Denzel Deval and a host of other LBers either started or played a ton of football for us as freshmen.

And how many other true freshmen were starting alongside them?

quote:

Golding had Dylan Moses and Mack Wilson last season. Didn't seem to make him anymore aggressive than this season

No one seems sure when Golding started calling plays nor how much control he had over the D last year; and I've never heard Saban address it. If he did call all the Clemson game, I think we did blitz a decent bit...and we got burned most of the times we did as Lawrence got rid of the ball quickly, often tossing up 50-50 balls to his WRs. Golding has a history of aggressive defenses at his previous stops; not sure why he's not showing much of that thus far this season.
Posted by OldPete
Georgia
Member since Oct 2013
2804 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:05 am to
quote:

I personally think Saban likes to let the DC's do their thing for the most part.

Maybe it was an exception, but seems like that wasn't the case with Tosh...
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
22589 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:31 am to
quote:

Do you think Golding is an incompetent DC and the primary cause of Bama's disappointing and substandard defensive performance?



Mostly I think(or maybe I want to believe) he didn't call the games last year as others have said.

If he did call those games, then yes. I believe we beat Clemson if Pruitt is calling that game.

We have the talent to be a top10 defense kind of by default.

Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Do you think Golding is an incompetent DC and the primary cause of Bama's disappointing and substandard defensive performance?


No one said it's going to be that simple. You seem to want to bake all these issues up in some ridiculously easy pie. If it was that simple Saban would have solved the puzzle long ago. I'm thinking Johnny Football, Hugh Freeze long ago.

That said, being aggressive is a defensive philosophy more than a formation or Xs and Os. And I'm not sure you can teach it.
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:59 am to
quote:

quote:

Do you think Golding is an incompetent DC and the primary cause of Bama's disappointing and substandard defensive performance?

No one said it's going to be that simple. You seem to want to bake all these issues up in some ridiculously easy pie. If it was that simple Saban would have solved the puzzle long ago. I'm thinking Johnny Football, Hugh Freeze long ago.

That said, being aggressive is a defensive philosophy more than a formation or Xs and Os. And I'm not sure you can teach it.

A very ironic response considering you've been adamant that Golding "doesn't have a clue" and deserves the blame for Bama's subpar defensive performance -- mainly because he doesn't call enough blitzes "You seem to want to bake all these issues up in some ridiculously easy pie." It's you who's done that. I've made no attempt whatsoever to do that.
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 12:45 pm
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13971 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

A very ironic response considering you've been adamant that Golding "doesn't have a clue" and deserves the blame for Bama's subpar defensive performance. "You seem to want to bake all these issues up in some ridiculously easy pie." I've made no attempt whatsoever to that.



Possibly because everything else I've said about cause and effect when you are defending the spread has gone over your noggin as well.
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

Possibly because everything else I've said about cause and effect when you are defending the spread has gone over your noggin as well.

Nothing you've postrd has gone over my head. And I've actually been in agreement with you that an agressive attacking front-7 scheme aimed at playing fast and getting backfield penetration is more effective against HUNH spread offenses.

My only remarks that don't seem to mesh with your thinking is that I think it's premature to judge that Golding doesn't understand, support or prefer that approach. Idk if that one difference of opinion is what's rustled you, but you seem to have a desire to insult me.

However, if Golding doesn't transition the front-7 game plans, play calling, etc. in that direction as the freshman starters get settled in, then I'll likely become just as concerned about Golding as you already are.

This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 1:59 pm
Posted by Commander Data
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Dec 2016
7289 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 1:03 pm to
quote:

I think it's premature to judge that Golding doesn't understand, support or prefer that approach.


After seeing us these first three games it is fairly apparent that he doesn't support or prefer a simpler, more aggressive pattern of play calling. He obviously understands it but doesn't prefer it or we wouldn't be seeing just three guys rush the passer on third down. The only proof we have is what we see with our own eyes and though I am getting old I know an ultra conservative defense when I see one.

Now, he may call a completely different game Saturday or in the future but I doubt it. Usually, what you see is what you get. I won't go off on a tirade of negative posts like I have in the past but so far I really don't like our approach on defense at all.
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 1:04 pm
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 9/18/19 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

After seeing us these first three games it is fairly apparent that he doesn't support or prefer a simpler, more aggressive pattern of play calling. He obviously understands it but doesn't prefer it or we wouldn't be seeing just three guys rush the passer on third down. The only proof we have is what we see with our own eyes and though I am getting old I know an ultra conservative defense when I see one.

Now, he may call a completely different game Saturday or in the future but I doubt it. Usually, what you see is what you get. I won't go off on a tirade of negative posts like I have in the past but so far I really don't like our approach on defense at all.

Based on things Saban has said I sense that it may be him moreso than Golding who's wanted to keep the front-7 calls more vanilla (minimal stunting & blitzing) in the early going this season while the freshman starters are learning on the job. Either way, I'm hopeful i's just a temporary measure that's going away pretty soon.
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 1:35 pm
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