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re: Greg McElroy/Cole Cubelic on the bowl game
Posted on 1/2/25 at 10:49 am to Bamadoc
Posted on 1/2/25 at 10:49 am to Bamadoc
quote:
Moving forward, many of those players are going to be gone. This Fr class, and incoming Fr class have loyalty to CKD, along with his transfers. That makes a huge difference.
Great point. We'll probably all look back on this as a rough transition year with the focal point being the disaster artist at quarterback. Lost in a lot of this is the transition the defense had to go through as well with a new coach and system, and I know we're all happy to see how well they played down the stretch and going into next year.
So, to only have to worry about one side of the ball getting their shite together for next season will be a nice change.
1
Posted on 1/2/25 at 10:50 am to Oreo Speedwagon
quote:
You are telling me that players who dream of playing in the NFL would tank their own performance to keep their preferred qb as the starter? I call BS. Poor qb play makes all other positions on offense look bad…O line, receivers, RBs, etc.
I freely admit I'm guessing here (and GMac may be guessing as well, I dunno). But I wouldn't discount the things people will do for loyalty, even if it seems to contradict what's in their own best self-interest. Particularly when the people in question are in their late teens and early 20s.
Nick Saban kept Pete Golding as his defensive coordinator or co-DC for five years, despite a general statistical decline in our defensive proficiency during that same time.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 10:52 am to Marktastic86
Correct. The defense was very good for the most part save the second half of the Georgia game and Vandy. That is very encouraging.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 10:55 am to Sauron
quote:
There likely was concern from the staff that if Ty replaced Jalen, a repeat of the USF game was possible. - Cole said it might not have made much difference if Ty had played given the issues the offense line was having.
If that “effort” was for the QB they supposedly wanted, it’s a good thing Ty wasn’t sent out to die. The OL has been suspect for two straight years.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 10:59 am to Sauron
quote:
it's concerning that he apparently didn't feel he could make the changes needed to help the team be as successful as they could be.
If everything said is true, Saban was in the same predicament and chose the same path.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 10:59 am to Sauron
Loyalty cracked the door open, some used it to their advantage, and weakness was eventually exploited.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:00 am to Sauron
This is the most accurate, level headed description imo. Maybe DeBoer isn't the guy in the long run. I don't know. He seems to be doing ok to me based on the cards he was dealt. Recruiting has been good so far. But, this season shouldn't be the determination and those calling for a coaching change already are fools.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:02 am to Sauron
Hilariously enough if a repeat of USF happens Ty gives us 14 points in a half
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:03 am to RollTide33
quote:
other schools to see if anyone is still interested despite his atrocious game. Let's hope to God someone still is.
Let’s hope Rich Rod can help us out one more time!
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:04 am to Bamafig
quote:
The OL has been suspect for two straight years.
They weren't great going back to the Bryce Young years, either.
But as average as the past two years were, they didn't have much of a chance with such a dipshit in charge of making sure they were in the right protections. And on top of that, when they did block, Milroe either drifted back in the pocket right into a sack instead of stepping up, waited until it was too late to take off, or any number of other mistakes.
Good QB play can improve a lot and mask inefficiencies of other parts of the offense.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:10 am to Marktastic86
I said this the other day but we would have been better off if Milroe had opted out of the bowl game and prepared for the draft. He could have gone out as a winner beating Auburn at home in his final game. But for some reason, he chose to play in the bowl game. Some might say it was because he was a team player. I say that it was a selfish decision. And it seriously affected his draft stock. And made a disappointing season that much worse.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:11 am to Sauron
Some people seem to believe that a clique of players, led by Milroe himself, went to Saban last year and told him, "If you bench Milroe we won't try." Saban called their bluff and benched him, only it wasn't a bluff at all, and so Saban bowed to their wishes and let Milroe finish out the season, and then retired so he wouldn't have to deal with any of them anymore. And then this same group of players went to DeBoer and told him the same thing, and he just let them run the program rather than make waves.
That seems, um, unlikely at best.
Do I believe that Milroe is well-liked by the team and seen as a leader by at least some of them? Yes, I do. Do I believe that some of those players are vocal about wanting Jalen as the QB? Yeah, I can buy that. Do I believe that those players have formed a cabal and have now held two head coaches hostage by threatening to throw games? Not even a little bit. That would never fly.
Here's my take: Milroe is a player with an extremely high up side, and an extremely low down side. Saban and DeBoer were tasked with fielding the best team they possibly could, and the best version of this team is the one with Good Milroe at QB. Unfortunately that also brings in the inevitability of Bad Milroe showing up. But as coaches their job is to help their players realize their full potential, and so they have tried to push Milroe to become better, and from everything I have heard Milroe has been a hard worker off the field. He wants to be better and does all the things he's told to do, but for whatever reason it just hasn't "clicked" with him.
DeBoer also wants to run a team that is player-led, and Milroe, as mentioned above, is seen as a leader of the team. He's a likeable guy so it isn't unusual or wrong that other players would like him. He's the returning starting QB so he's in a leadership position by default. And he seems to lead by example - I remember players talking during the offseason about how they would try to get to the Athletics building earlier than Milroe, but they couldn't do it. He's everything you would want a leader on a player-led team to be, except for the part where when he finally gets on the field he's a liability as often as he's not. That puts DeBoer in a tricky position - do you bench the team leader when he doesn't perform well?
I will say this - the Michigan game was the first game this year where DeBoer looked visibly frustrated on the sidelines, and the first one where I've really seen him tearing into some of the players.
That seems, um, unlikely at best.
Do I believe that Milroe is well-liked by the team and seen as a leader by at least some of them? Yes, I do. Do I believe that some of those players are vocal about wanting Jalen as the QB? Yeah, I can buy that. Do I believe that those players have formed a cabal and have now held two head coaches hostage by threatening to throw games? Not even a little bit. That would never fly.
Here's my take: Milroe is a player with an extremely high up side, and an extremely low down side. Saban and DeBoer were tasked with fielding the best team they possibly could, and the best version of this team is the one with Good Milroe at QB. Unfortunately that also brings in the inevitability of Bad Milroe showing up. But as coaches their job is to help their players realize their full potential, and so they have tried to push Milroe to become better, and from everything I have heard Milroe has been a hard worker off the field. He wants to be better and does all the things he's told to do, but for whatever reason it just hasn't "clicked" with him.
DeBoer also wants to run a team that is player-led, and Milroe, as mentioned above, is seen as a leader of the team. He's a likeable guy so it isn't unusual or wrong that other players would like him. He's the returning starting QB so he's in a leadership position by default. And he seems to lead by example - I remember players talking during the offseason about how they would try to get to the Athletics building earlier than Milroe, but they couldn't do it. He's everything you would want a leader on a player-led team to be, except for the part where when he finally gets on the field he's a liability as often as he's not. That puts DeBoer in a tricky position - do you bench the team leader when he doesn't perform well?
I will say this - the Michigan game was the first game this year where DeBoer looked visibly frustrated on the sidelines, and the first one where I've really seen him tearing into some of the players.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:11 am to InkStainedWretch
quote:
Does the head coach actually control the purse strings in this new environment? Serious question.
If anyone on the staff controls the purse strings, I would assume it’s the GM.
I don’t know if anyone on the team can legally control that though. It wouldn’t be NIL if it was controlled by the coaching staff.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:27 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
Do I believe that those players have formed a cabal and have now held two head coaches hostage by threatening to throw games? Not even a little bit. That would never fly.
Maybe not to that extreme, but it seems like there's more truth to it than any of us would like to believe.
quote:
That puts DeBoer in a tricky position - do you bench the team leader when he doesn't perform well?
I've never seen a coach of any team watch a guy seem visibly shook and play as poorly as Milroe did this past year and not sit him down for at least a couple of drives. Saban and DeBoer both did it. There's no way to explain it, and there's no way a guy like Simpson or Mack were just such absolute trash that they couldn't be trusted to come in in his place.
quote:
I will say this - the Michigan game was the first game this year where DeBoer looked visibly frustrated on the sidelines, and the first one where I've really seen him tearing into some of the players.
Yeah, he was fired up and also laying into the refs. The people on here saying DeBoer is some passive sweetheart at practice that doesn't know how to yell at his players are ridiculous.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 11:42 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
Some people seem to believe that a clique of players, led by Milroe himself, went to Saban last year and told him, "If you bench Milroe we won't try." Saban called their bluff and benched him, only it wasn't a bluff at all, and so Saban bowed to their wishes and let Milroe finish out the season, and then retired so he wouldn't have to deal with any of them anymore. And then this same group of players went to DeBoer and told him the same thing, and he just let them run the program rather than make waves. That seems, um, unlikely at best. Do I believe that Milroe is well-liked by the team and seen as a leader by at least some of them? Yes, I do. Do I believe that some of those players are vocal about wanting Jalen as the QB? Yeah, I can buy that. Do I believe that those players have formed a cabal and have now held two head coaches hostage by threatening to throw games? Not even a little bit. That would never fly. Here's my take: Milroe is a player with an extremely high up side, and an extremely low down side. Saban and DeBoer were tasked with fielding the best team they possibly could, and the best version of this team is the one with Good Milroe at QB. Unfortunately that also brings in the inevitability of Bad Milroe showing up. But as coaches their job is to help their players realize their full potential, and so they have tried to push Milroe to become better, and from everything I have heard Milroe has been a hard worker off the field. He wants to be better and does all the things he's told to do, but for whatever reason it just hasn't "clicked" with him. DeBoer also wants to run a team that is player-led, and Milroe, as mentioned above, is seen as a leader of the team. He's a likeable guy so it isn't unusual or wrong that other players would like him. He's the returning starting QB so he's in a leadership position by default. And he seems to lead by example - I remember players talking during the offseason about how they would try to get to the Athletics building earlier than Milroe, but they couldn't do it. He's everything you would want a leader on a player-led team to be, except for the part where when he finally gets on the field he's a liability as often as he's not. That puts DeBoer in a tricky position - do you bench the team leader when he doesn't perform well? I will say this - the Michigan game was the first game this year where DeBoer looked visibly frustrated on the sidelines, and the first one where I've really seen him tearing into some of the players.
This is a really good take on things. Post more often.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 12:10 pm to bamatide07
Milroe honestly believed he would go out, put up some big numbers, help himself in the draft, and go out with an “i told you so”.
All it ended up doing was making the decision a little harder. I guarantee you one thing, you can always find someone to tell you what you want to hear when there’s money involved.
All it ended up doing was making the decision a little harder. I guarantee you one thing, you can always find someone to tell you what you want to hear when there’s money involved.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 12:18 pm to Sauron
I just listened, and I think McElroy just gave the most brutal review of JM that he could possibly give without burning bridges.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 12:22 pm to Marktastic86
Have you ever been to a practice - maybe some folks say things because they have attended and witnessed his demeanor at a practice. Milk toast - Mike Dubose hand claps.
IMO - he’s becoming desperate and I think desperation leads to more emotion.
IMO - he’s becoming desperate and I think desperation leads to more emotion.
Posted on 1/2/25 at 12:26 pm to LovetheLord
quote:
This is a really good take on things. Post more often.
I think that take is very good. I think Deboer examined the situation, realized this is a meaningless game, and made the business decision that itd be better for him to take the heat for not replacing the QB and losing the game than to replace the QB.
You need him to leave. If you replace him during a bowl game, it just looks awful for his draft stock. If you put in Ty, you risk too much of the FUTURE. The time to replace was the UT game. After that, it just didnt make sense, especially after you get good Milroe in BR
Posted on 1/2/25 at 12:32 pm to TizzyT4theUofA
Question: Can players receiving NIL share that and basically put other players on their payroll? If so, this creates serious issues.
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