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Posted on 8/8/19 at 10:31 am to Peter Buck
Peter I havne't read this whole thread but I'm not sure why you can't see the reality that TC was woefully bad here but coudl still make a home in the NFL (mainly just a roster spot, but a home nonetheless). Him being in the NFL doens't magically make his time here any better. The FACT is he was not a good LT for us, period. At all. If he ends up being a good OL in the pros, great! But what happened here happened and what's happening currently doesn't change that.
In fact you can see the same story many other times and places. Corey Moore was an average but unremarkable safety for us that went undrafted that ended up starting a while in the NFL and is in year 4 of hte league. chris clemons was a pretty good LB for us in 2002 taht made the head scracthing decision to leave early and went undrafted. He played in the NFL for like 14 years! Point is just becuase a guy is IN the NFL, doesn't change what he did in college.
In fact you can see the same story many other times and places. Corey Moore was an average but unremarkable safety for us that went undrafted that ended up starting a while in the NFL and is in year 4 of hte league. chris clemons was a pretty good LB for us in 2002 taht made the head scracthing decision to leave early and went undrafted. He played in the NFL for like 14 years! Point is just becuase a guy is IN the NFL, doesn't change what he did in college.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 12:06 pm to WG_Dawg
The argument was that we had to grab some horrible D3 player who was not SEC material, because we were so desperate and this was why our line sucked.
My response was we he was NFL talent ... and still is. Saying he was out of position does not support the argument that he didn’t belong in the SEC.
The reality of the situation is they were trying to run a new scheme with someone else’s recruits, which was the 2 part root cause. The line got better when they had more time, experience, and their own recruits. Also, increasing the talent level helped obviously.
It’s easy to understand why people who are emotional and don’t understand football would project their anger on the talent level of the players and the previous regime.
In hind site, it appears the Staff decided to stay the course with the way they wanted run things, even though it may not have been the best for the team that season . It sucked that season, but may have been for the best long term based on the current results.
In summation, I said Catalina was NFL talent and I was right. I have won this argument.
I would like to thank our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us stupid people, for without them, the internets would be far less entertaining. Since I am the current internets champion, I ask that you all use Catalina dressing on your salads until further notice. Think of this as a gift, not a punishment. It is delicious.
My response was we he was NFL talent ... and still is. Saying he was out of position does not support the argument that he didn’t belong in the SEC.
The reality of the situation is they were trying to run a new scheme with someone else’s recruits, which was the 2 part root cause. The line got better when they had more time, experience, and their own recruits. Also, increasing the talent level helped obviously.
It’s easy to understand why people who are emotional and don’t understand football would project their anger on the talent level of the players and the previous regime.
In hind site, it appears the Staff decided to stay the course with the way they wanted run things, even though it may not have been the best for the team that season . It sucked that season, but may have been for the best long term based on the current results.
In summation, I said Catalina was NFL talent and I was right. I have won this argument.
I would like to thank our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us stupid people, for without them, the internets would be far less entertaining. Since I am the current internets champion, I ask that you all use Catalina dressing on your salads until further notice. Think of this as a gift, not a punishment. It is delicious.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 12:23 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Looks like there was nothing specific about Catalina making it as an OG. Peter must still mad Catalina went undrafted.
But that wasn't what was said or argued about. The argument was when people said Catalina was from Rhode Island and had no business being in the SEC. He clearly was. Was he a great tackle? No. But we played him out of position. He was clearly a better guard, and if we had played our OLinemen at their best positions the Line would have done better.....probably.
The argument that he was out of position is immaterial. He was never given the opportunity to play at his best position.
Are you arguing that he could not play guard? Or Pyke, for that matter? because the NFL seems to disagree.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 4:21 pm to DawgsLife
You sir, get some Catalina dressing on your salad this evening
Posted on 8/8/19 at 4:54 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
But that wasn't what was said or argued about. The argument was when people said Catalina was from Rhode Island and had no business being in the SEC.
Disagree. The context of the discussion is very important. Everything said about Catalina was based on him playing tackle at RI, uga, and in the Nfl. He didn’t play well at uga, didn’t get drafted as an OT, and he didn’t make a roster as an OT.
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 4:55 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 5:00 pm to djsdawg
Lies
Posted on 8/8/19 at 5:01 pm to Peter Buck
Arturo! Arturo!
Posted on 8/8/19 at 5:22 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Disagree. The context of the discussion is very important. Everything said about Catalina was based on him playing tackle at RI, uga, and in the Nfl.
Not really. It was people saying we were in trouble because we took a transfer from Rhode Island. The entire argument was about us not having talent along the OLine. That is what Peter Buck was arguing the whole time. that the talent was there. That we had three guys projected to go to the NFL. Time after time people argued that one problem was that we took a player from Rhode Island. The positions didn't matter.
Peter Buck, and me to a lesser extent were arguing that the talent was there, but they were playing out of position, and the blocking schemes were nto suited to the personnel.
We argued that the players playing in the position they were being played in could not do the pulling etc, required to make the blocking scheme work. We argued that a better approach would be to go with a zone blocking scheme.
I made the argument that we should, be playing Pyke and Catalina in guard and move Wynn and Baker (I think it was) out to tackles, because it would be better to have some players playing their best position than have everyone across the line playing in unnatural, ill fitting places.
While looking back for all the quotes, I saw this exact conversation. And, no, I am not going back there and sifting through all of that. It is way too time consuming. I gave plenty of examples....and believe me, there were many more.
All that said...I will say that i was a very vocal critic of Kirby. I was dead wrong. I can admit it.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 6:01 pm to DawgsLife
Link to post (s)?
Quite frankly I barely remember much other than being critical of TC at tackle. I'm pretty sure I was more critical of Wynn than was warranted in hindsight.
Quite frankly I barely remember much other than being critical of TC at tackle. I'm pretty sure I was more critical of Wynn than was warranted in hindsight.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 6:15 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
will say that i was a very vocal critic of Kirby. I was dead wrong
He did deserve some criticism his 1st year.There was definitely a learning curve there but I'd rather have a top flight recruiter and someone who's learning OTJ than a excellent X and 0's guy who can't recruit.
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 6:16 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 6:28 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
He did deserve some criticism his 1st year.There was definitely a learning curve there but I'd rather have a top flight recruiter and someone who's learning OTJ than a excellent X and 0's guy who can't recruit.
No doubt and we are certainly better off now. Some folks were just putting all the blame in the wrong place. There were a lot of factors really. Catalina being “garbage” was not one of them.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 6:30 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
positions didn't matter.
Disagree. The details do matter.
quote:
they were playing out of position, and the blocking schemes were nto suited to the personnel.
When were these points made? That’s a detail that matters.
quote:
made the argument that we should, be playing Pyke and Catalina in guard and move Wynn and Baker (I think it was) out to tackles, because it would be better to have some players playing their best position than have everyone across the line playing in unnatural, ill fitting places.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 6:33 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
Lies
Stop acting like you have a good memory and are ingenuous. No one is buying that bs. You clearly have an axe to grind, and you can’t be trusted.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 6:51 pm to djsdawg
I'm drunk with laughter at all of the "Catalina NFL talent" posts.
He's an NFL player. He's earned that.
And I'm proud of him.
Talent? That's too funny. George Plimpton talent.
He's an NFL player. He's earned that.
And I'm proud of him.
Talent? That's too funny. George Plimpton talent.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 7:08 pm to djsdawg
Catalina took Tiano Pupungatoa's spot on the vikings 90 man roster (3rd string right guard). Tiano was an undrafted free agent. 3rd team FCS All American (South Dakota State). Tiano was so close to being an NFL talent.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 7:33 pm to meansonny
quote:
Catalina NFL talent" posts.
He's in the NFL...that means he has NFL talent.Geez
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 7:36 pm to meansonny
quote:
e's an NFL player. He's earned that.
And I'm proud of him.
Talent? That's too funny. George Plimpton talent.
Unless he makes a roster as an OT, and he has yet to do so in years 1 or 2, we can conclude he isn't a NFL talent at OT. If we were complete losers, we would start a thread about it years later to brag.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 7:44 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
He's in the NFL...that means he has NFL talent.Geez
If talent has to be used... below average NFL talent? Mediocre NFL talent?
The kind of NFL talent who makes rosters when better talent is hurt?
All of those include "NFL talent" if it is an appropriate term.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 7:52 pm to meansonny
quote:
If talent has to be used... below average NFL talent? Mediocre NFL talent?
You said "George Plimpton" talent you condescending prick.
Question:Did you ever play HSFB or CFB?
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