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re: Fromm
Posted on 10/30/18 at 7:56 am to Leon S Kennedy
Posted on 10/30/18 at 7:56 am to Leon S Kennedy
quote:
How could it possibly be Fromm based on who is playing right now?
It definitely cant be Fromm, but its going to suck if we lose Fields. Hopefully Cheney cant actually have some packages for him and let him play some
1
Posted on 10/30/18 at 8:01 am to djsdawg
quote:
We didn’t see anything comparable to cam or Watson in 2017. Those 2 carried their teams.
You are going to compare two juniors to a true freshman?
Why don't you compare Watson and Newton's freshman years to Fromm's freshman year?
Newton started P5 football one year. Watson played a good bit his freshman year, but they did not play for the National Championship that year, so yes, Fromm did elevate his team to the Cam newton/Watson heights for their freshman year.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 8:04 am to DawgsLife
Stupid facts. Get outta here with that rational behavior
Posted on 10/30/18 at 8:04 am to djsdawg
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 8:05 am
Posted on 10/30/18 at 8:08 am to DawgCountry
quote:
Stupid facts. Get outta here with that rational behavior
I don't mind people giving their opinions, but when their opinions are as slanted and lopsided as theirs are...I have to wonder why? Do they not understand football at all? I mean, they want to compare a true freshman to juniors?
They are terrified Fields is going to leave....and who knows? He might. But they state he is leaving like they actually have facts to back them up. And lets not forget that Nolan Smith is leaving with Fields....never mind he has tweeted several times that he is solid.
Not sure what their agenda is, but they believe strongly in it.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 8:11 am to DawgsLife
I keep saying I am not going to respond to them, but I end up doing it anyway. The only thing I can do is get out and do stuff away from the computer.....so I'm off. Hate to drop it on you, Dawg Country, but I have to get away from their constant negativity. They play a little too carelessly with the facts. 
Posted on 10/30/18 at 8:14 am to BreezyDawg
Everyone needs to really think about this. Fromm lead(quarterback captains the boat) us to the national championship game as a freshman. Given the very good talent that surrounded him. Only a hand full of very good quarterbacks have done this. Only one has actually won the national championship other than Tua and Tua didn't actually lead his team to the game, didn't even actually start the game.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 10/30/18 at 9:06 am to DawgsLife
quote:
You are going to compare two juniors to a true freshman?
Age is irrelevant to a comparison of the impact of a qb in a game or in a season:
1. A passer rating of 108 is the same for a freshman and a jr.
2. 4500 yards has a bigger impact than 2500 yards no matter the age.
3. 50 tds > 25 Tds no matter the age.
Talk about the stats.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 9:21 am to DawgsLife
quote:
And lets not forget that Nolan Smith is leaving with Fields....never mind he has tweeted several times that he is solid.
As we have seen time and time and time again that means absolutely nothing. Remember John Emery being "100% committed to the Dawgs" like 2 days before decommitting?
Posted on 10/30/18 at 10:45 am to BreezyDawg
quote:
It definitely cant be Fromm
I wouldn't say that too fast. If we lose a game or two, SECCG and bowl game, Fields will be running the show next year.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 10:59 am to Hobnail
quote:
Remember John Emery being "100% committed to the Dawgs" like 2 days before decommitting?
Or Haslewood being all good with UGA hours prior to decomitting
Posted on 10/30/18 at 11:16 am to djsdawg
quote:While statistics help paint a picture, they aren't the picture by themselves. For instance, did you consider the offensive schemes of the teams that used those other QBs? Did you consider the play calling that they used with those QBs? Did you consider the support cast on both the offensives and defensive sides of the ball that helped each QB succeed? While stars do emerge, football is still a team game.
Age is irrelevant to a comparison of the impact of a qb in a game or in a season:
1. A passer rating of 108 is the same for a freshman and a jr.
2. 4500 yards has a bigger impact than 2500 yards no matter the age.
3. 50 tds > 25 Tds no matter the age.
Talk about the stats.
Passer rating doesn't consider context or blame. It just uses raw numbers. Neither of those INTs against Bama could be pinned on Fromm playing/throwing poorly. Take those away and his rating jumps to 121. Not spectacular by any measure but Hurts rating in the championship game the year before was 88 and he still almost beat Clemson who needed a (literally) last second TD to come from behind and win.
The number of passing yards isn't a good metric because, again, that is based on how the QB is used. A pass-first offense or an up-tempo offense will generally net a QB more passing yards (if he and his receiver's good) than a run-first offense. More attempts generally gets you more yards.
Same for TDs. When you have a more balanced offense and rely on your RBs to punch the ball in most of the time you are in the red zone, the QB isn't generally going to get as many passing TDs as a team with a bad running game or a pass-first offense.
Why don't we talk about yards per attempt or completion percentage which are averages and can be compared between all types of QBs?
And yes, comparing juniors to a true freshman is silly because juniors are expected to have had either more experience or more time in the program to learn the ropes and learn from those above them in the pecking order. They've had more time to mature and learn the offense. They've potentially had more time to work with various receivers on their team to get chemistry. It matters.
Why do you think Fromm was getting so much national praise last year even though he wasn't putting up gaudy passing numbers (like the yards and TDs that you mentioned)? Because he was a true freshman and true freshman aren't usually able to command an offense like he did and help lead the team to a national championship game.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 11:17 am to DawgRff
quote:That would depend on why we lose those games. If Fromm is lights out but our receivers or backs fumble balls away, or if our defense doesn't show up or our special teams stays on the bus and we lose games, that doesn't mean Fields would automatically be the guy.
I wouldn't say that too fast. If we lose a game or two, SECCG and bowl game, Fields will be running the show next year.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:07 pm to djsdawg
quote:Take away the INT that was pulled out of the hands of his receiver and it goes up to 121.
Take away the tipped INT, and his rating goes to 114.
Fromm wasn't a super star in that game but he did enough to win it. We lost on a defensive possession, not an offensive one. We had more points than Bama did prior to that blown coverage that ended the game.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:52 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 10/30/18 at 2:25 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
We lost on a defensive possession, not an offensive one. We had more points than Bama did prior to that blown coverage that ended the game.
Enough with the excuses. It simply wasn’t a good throw. After Wims burnt his man, it took a well underthrown ball for the db to be near the ball, so It’s fair to credit him with an int. Even if you want to be ridiculous, and remove all his ints, 121 still isn’t good, and that’s not taking the negative rushing yards into account. Qbs who help beat Bama usually do much better than that. Simply put, Fromm needed to do more, just as other QBs did.
Let’s review the end of that game to see what more he could have done:
1. We only went to OT because Bama missed an easy fg after Fromm failed to lead us down the field on the final drive. That’s the kind of drive that requires a qb to lead a team down the field for a win, but he missed an open swift on 3rd down. Punt to tua = bad idea.
2. OT gave uga the ball in scoring Position. The offense didn’t have to gain one yard.
3. We only took the lead on a clutch special teams play after fromm took a terrible 13 yard sack. Give rod credit, not the offense.
4. Tua’s td would not have won the game if fromm threw one himself. It’s not good to settle for a fg with the first possession of OT.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 6:23 pm to djsdawg
So, technically then, it's all Eason's fault for getting hurt and not being good enough to dislodge the worst quarterback in the history of absolute dogshit quarterbacks from the starting job.
Remember, Eason was the guy who was supposed to take us to multiple national championships.
Remember, Eason was the guy who was supposed to take us to multiple national championships.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 8:50 pm to FaCubeItches
no
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:51 pm to djsdawg
quote:You sound like HTD. Explanation of context isn't an excuse, and even if it were, it would be something legitimate to take into account.
Enough with the excuses.
You don't have to get mad just because you're being challenged.
quote:It wasn't a great throw but it's one Wimms should have caught. Brown didn't even know where the ball was. He wasn't actively defending the ball. He just sort of got in the way and the ball dropped into his hands for the INT.
It simply wasn’t a good throw. After Wims burnt his man, it took a well underthrown ball for the db to be near the ball, so It’s fair to credit him with an int.
quote:I didn't say 121 was good but it wasn't as bad as is made out to be by the numbers alone. That's also why I mentioned Hurts' rating from the year before where he did more with his legs and they still lost a close one at the literal last second of the game. Hurts did enough to win that game against Clemson but the defense (or rather Clemson's offense) was what lost the game in the end. Same with us. Even without a super star performance from Fromm, at the end of the game we lost because our defense didn't perform as it should have on that last play.
Even if you want to be ridiculous, and remove all his ints, 121 still isn’t good, and that’s not taking the negative rushing yards into account. Qbs who help beat Bama usually do much better than that. Simply put, Fromm needed to do more, just as other QBs did.
Also, consider that our receivers did not haul in 6 throws that could have been caught totaling 43 additional yards (if stopped where they caught the ball). I know drops are a part of the game, but if you're going to blame Fromm for everything while playing the what-if game, we might as well play this one. If you give Fromm 6 extra completions and 43 extra yards (as well as count those two INTs as incompletions), Fromm now has a rating of 151.25.
Buck Belue was 1/13 for 7 yards in the 1980 championship game and we still won. Could he have done more? Of course! But we won all the same. Fromm wasn't why we lost to Alabama. He could have been perfect and we still could have lost due to other factors that are out of his control. You can point to a few of his throws/decisions and say that if he did better, we would have won. But, you can say the same thing about nearly everyone on that field. You could say that about the bogus off sides penalty on the blocked punt. It's a team game and in spite of your criticism of Fromm, he likely would have have a national championship under his belt if it weren't for that blown coverage on the last play. And frankly, I thought he played very well considering that he was a true freshman playing in the biggest game in college football. While he made some bad throws, he had just as many great ones.
quote:We "only" went to OT because of a missed FG? Special teams is a part of the game. It's another thing that needs to be executed properly or it could cost you games. We executed well on ST and they didn't. That's part of the game and happens even when QBs play well.
Let’s review the end of that game to see what more he could have done:
1. We only went to OT because Bama missed an easy fg after Fromm failed to lead us down the field on the final drive. That’s the kind of drive that requires a qb to lead a team down the field for a win, but he missed an open swift on 3rd down. Punt to tua = bad idea.
That said, Fromm had a defender right in his path. If he throws the ball lower it could have been batted down. It wasn't a great throw, obviously, but you make it sound like Fromm had an open lane to throw in. He didn't.
quote:Is this an argument? Could Fromm have improved on what he was asked to do in this situation?
2. OT gave uga the ball in scoring Position. The offense didn’t have to gain one yard.
quote:Fromm had a defender rush right up the middle largely unblocked. He was faster than Fromm. By the time Fromm was out of the pocket to throw the ball away, he had three Bama defenders within 3-4 yards of him, including one in the lane where Fromm would need to throw the ball out of bounds. That was good defense by Bama and it was a spectacular play by Hot Rod, but it's again hard to pin the lack of protection on Fromm.
3. We only took the lead on a clutch special teams play after fromm took a terrible 13 yard sack. Give rod credit, not the offense.
quote:While that's true, play calling and execution (by those other than Fromm, as well) had a part to play there. There is context to consider and it's not as easy as "just throw a TD!" against one of the best defenses in the nation when pass blocking breaks down on 3rd down.
4. Tua’s td would not have won the game if fromm threw one himself. It’s not good to settle for a fg with the first possession of OT.
What you rightly point out is that there are things that could have gone differently that could have secured a victory for the good guys. You seem to be wanting to place all the blame on Fromm instead of spreading it around to our defense, the refs, and our receivers who dropped a half dozen balls throughout the game.
The fact of the matter is that with Fromm quarterbacking for us, we had the lead in overtime against Bama and they needed a great throw against blown coverage to win.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 3:03 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Age is irrelevant to a comparison of the impact of a qb in a game or in a season:
So you think a true freshman has as big an impact on the leadership of a team as Juniors?
THIS is why I keep asking you in you've ever played! You don't understand the dynamics of a team.
quote:
1. A passer rating of 108 is the same for a freshman and a jr.
2. 4500 yards has a bigger impact than 2500 yards no matter the age.
3. 50 tds > 25 Tds no matter the age.
And there it is. You think the only impact a [player has on a team is statistics. Look. Why don't we just agree to disagree. Everybody on the board is tired of hearing about it. That is not only from you, but both of us. I allowed myself to be drawn in time after time. It doesn't do any good, because you don't understand the game fully. Don't get me wrong. There are times you have a great grasp, but there are times it is obvious you don't. You know the sport. You know statistics. But you don't have a great grasp of the inside dynamics.
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