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Porter Osborne Jr
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Member since Sep 2012
28291 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
We return 9 starters on D from what I thought.


wdhalgren
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2013
2616 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
LINK

Georgiadogs.com used to keep starters in their regular participation page, but they don't seem to do that anymore. All I could find is the link above for game notes going into the SECCG.

If you scroll down to page 7 in the PDF, there's a table that shows the game by game starters for offense and defense. Crowder, Reed and Clark were the only regular defensive starters who are leaving. Barnett had 4 starts I believe (Jordan Davis had 8 starts). David Marshall had 4 or 5 listed. Everyone else of note is returning.
This post was edited on 1/14 at 12:34 pm


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DawgsLife
Georgia Fan
Member since Jun 2013
39346 posts
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re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

I'm sure the only we get Monken is if he is given play-calling duties. As it stands right now, Coley is our play-caller. The question is is Kirby going to fire or demote coley??




Don't necessarily have to. You don't think Steve Ensminger is calling the plays for LSU do you?


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meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

quote:
Sounds like his offense is pretty close to what we did or at least tried to do this year.


His offenses have been pass heavy compared to what we've been doing since Kirby got here. He may run the same concepts but I don't remember his time with the Bucs.



Peter is right.

2018 UGA
356 pass attempts
567 rush attempts
61.4% run

2019 UGA
415 pass attempts
525 rush attempts
55.8% run

Cleveland
318 pass attempts
393 rush attempts
55.2% run


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

quote:
We ran PA

Eh...
quote:
Been asked a bunch about #UGA offense and their inconsistency.

Two big picture issues that must change:

1 - Their run % on 2nd & 7-plus is 3rd highest in FBS

2 - Their % play-action is 114th in FBS

The first one is understandable, the second one is truly unbelievable.

This is as of November 18, so deep into the season

LINK


We ran play action.
The truth is that we weren't good at it.
Same with hurry up (aside from end of the half when the defense is changing how they attack)


What is Fromms strength? His football IQ.
Turning his back to the defense doesnt help his strength. Especially with as much pressure as we saw with defenses not respecting our deep ball (defenses controlled the LOS). You dont want to run play action into a blitz. I bet we were blitzed more than most teams.

The same problems presented themselves with our hurry up (not the end of half ones). Fromm wasnt doing a good job with presnap reads. Remember Swifts frustration with the run into the blitz? That wasn't an isolated incident. We ran a lot of hurry up in 3rd and short and Fromm often missed the correct read.

PA and hurry up took away Fromms good attribute and he wasnt capable of making up for it as a QB to create on his own.


Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
22823 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
That sounds like a pretty bad strength for a QB to have if it limits you that much. PA and tempo are two of the most common attributes of modern offensive football.
This post was edited on 1/14 at 12:29 pm


BeefDawg
Georgia Fan
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
3921 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

Peter is right.

2018 UGA
356 pass attempts
567 rush attempts
61.4% run

2019 UGA
415 pass attempts
525 rush attempts
55.8% run

Cleveland
318 pass attempts
393 rush attempts
55.2% run
Except Monken didn't actually call the plays at Cleveland, Kitchens did. Monken was only OC in name there and word is he and Kitchens didn't get along by mid-season.

Everywhere else Monken has been he's much closer to 55-50% pass to 45-50% run, with more passing on 1st and 2nd down and an obvious focus to make the pass open the run.

It's definitely not that close to what we did or tried to do this past season.


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

That sounds like a pretty bad strength for a QB to have if it limits you that much. PA and tempo are two of the most common attributes of modern offensive football.


Blame the receivers for lack of play action.
Defenses jammed at the line or blanketed underneath with no separation without recourse which makes executing plays against a blitz difficult. Turn your back to the extra blitzer, and that's offensive playcalling suicide.


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

Except Monken didn't actually call the plays at Cleveland, Kitchens did. Monken was only OC in name there and word is he and Kitchens didn't get along by mid-season.

Everywhere else Monken has been he's much closer to 55-50% pass to 45-50% run, with more passing on 1st and 2nd down and an obvious focus to make the pass open the run.

It's definitely not that close to what we did or tried to do this past season.


I'm not an NFL guy. I can take your word for it.

The point is that Coley tried to run all of the things asked for on the board. We weren't good at it. Which is an entirely separate issue than who calls plays.


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Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
22823 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

Turn your back to the extra blitzer, and that's offensive playcalling suicide.


I would argue that what we did this season was simply a more drawn out form of playcalling suicide, but I digress.

ETA: I refuse to believe that the outside personnel was so poor that nothing could be done effectively in the play action game. I watch shitty teams all over the place run play action effectively.
This post was edited on 1/14 at 12:53 pm


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meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

would argue that what we did this season was simply a more drawn out form of playcalling suicide, but I digress.

ETA: I refuse to believe that the outside personnel was so poor that nothing could be done effectively in the play action game. I watch shitty teams all over the place run play action effectively


2 questions for you.

1) do you call play action against a blitz?

2) why do you need to call play action when the defense is biting on the snap anyway?

I love playaction. It is great for a deep threat. But it doesnt work against the blitz. And it isnt needed when the linebackers are approaching the line of scrimmage anyway.


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

: I refuse to believe that the outside personnel was so poor that nothing could be done effectively in the play action game. I watch shitty teams all over the place run play action effectively.


Agree to disagree.

Running playaction wouldnt solve our offensive problems.
We needed running backs to cut inside runs outside more.
We needed receivers to create separation. We needed receivers to hold onto the ball.
We needed Fromm to do better post snap reading and better getting rid of the football on target under duress.

If you cant break the underneath pressure (at all 3 levels of the defense), then the defense won't stop the pressure.
This post was edited on 1/14 at 1:20 pm


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Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
22823 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

1) do you call play action against a blitz?

With as well as UGA pass protected, I do more often than we did. I especially do once it became clear that not doing so was not effective. I'll risk a sack if the alternative is known to be an ineffective plan of attack.
quote:

2) why do you need to call play action when the defense is biting on the snap anyway?

To give our very inexperienced WRs as much help as possible in getting separation and getting behind the safeties.

You simply cannot convince me that our offensive personnel was as poor as you say it is, to the point where nothing schematically could have been done significantly better. That would imply a systemic overrating of our offensive skill players that doesn't apply to any other top programs or our own defense. That, or poor development across the board on offense, which would be reason enough for a staff overhaul regardless of schematic issues.
This post was edited on 1/14 at 1:32 pm


Porter Osborne Jr
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2012
28291 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

Peter is right.

2018 UGA
356 pass attempts
567 rush attempts
61.4% run

2019 UGA
415 pass attempts
525 rush attempts
55.8% run

Cleveland
318 pass attempts
393 rush attempts
55.2% run



Yeah, except that that is not what he was running at OSU or USM or his 1st two years with the Bucs.

Edit: and we're saying that he passes to set up the run and throws deep a lot which is definitely different than what we have done with Kirby.
This post was edited on 1/14 at 1:31 pm


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

quote:
1) do you call play action against a blitz?

With as well as UGA pass protected, I do more often than we did. I especially do once it became clear that not doing so was not effective. I'll risk a sack if the alternative is known to be an ineffective plan of attack.


I'm not going to argue with you.
The only way you beat a Burrow or Lawrence is with negative plays (sacks). It isnt worth the gamble. Especially when the receivers have questionable hands.

quote:

To give our very inexperienced WRs as much help as possible in getting separation and getting behind the safeties.

If they are in man against a safety in press coverage, the safety isnt reading/ looking at the QB. If this is the case, they are probably blitzing more than we have blockers.

If it is a man-under defender with safety over top, we probably arent blowing by the safety anyways. Besides... Fromm doesnt know what the coverage is because he took his eyes off the safeties and they could have changed the look.
quote:

You simply cannot convince me that our offensive personnel was as poor as you say it is, to the point where nothing schematically could have been done significantly better

You havent seen Fromms splits with Cager and without Cager, then. Seen Fromm in the NCG with Wims and without? Seen Fromm in the SECCG with Holloman and without?


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

Edit: and we're saying that he passes to set up the run and throws deep a lot which is definitely different than what we have done with Kirby.


Fromm has about 3-5 incompletions a game on deep shots (weather permitting).
Throwing deep incomplete is still throwing deep except no one remembers until they want to reference a drop, foot out of bounds, or reversed decision by a referee/replay.


Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
22823 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

You havent seen Fromms splits with Cager and without Cager, then. Seen Fromm in the NCG with Wims and without? Seen Fromm in the SECCG with Holloman and without?

I have, and I think that says as much about Fromm and our dependence on the back shoulder fade as it does about our receivers.

I mean one of our receivers from 2017-2018 who is not listed above is already in the Pro Bowl, for fricks sake.
This post was edited on 1/14 at 1:46 pm


Porter Osborne Jr
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2012
28291 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

Fromm has about 3-5 incompletions a game on deep shots (weather permitting).
Throwing deep incomplete is still throwing deep except no one remembers until they want to reference a drop, foot out of bounds, or reversed decision by a referee/replay.


Sure, and Monken's offenses throw it deeper more than 3-5 times a game plus if he is hired I imagine we'll end up being more 55/45 pass/run instead of the other way around.


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

have, and I think that says as much about Fromm and our dependence on the back shoulder fade as it does about our receivers.

I mean one of our receivers from 2017-2018 who is not listed above is already in the Pro Bowl, for fricks sake.


You seem upset.

Because Mecole had more catches per game with Fromm than with the chiefs (2.42 :1.62)
Or Mecole had more yards per game with Fromm than with the chiefs
(38 : 33.6).
Or Mecole had 7 TDs from Fromm in 14 games to 6 TDs with the Chiefs in 16?

A lot of narratives get thrown around on the boards that seem more based upon emotion than fact.


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
10193 posts

re: **CONFIRMED**GTP/Schlabach - Dawgs May Look to Cleveland OC Todd Monken for Offensive Role
quote:

Sure, and Monken's offenses throw it deeper more than 3-5 times a game plus if he is hired I imagine we'll end up being more 55/45 pass/run instead of the other way around


I'm positive that you understand Monken better than me.
We will have to see, I guess.
Cheers


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