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Posted on 2/26/16 at 12:00 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I've actually described my economic views as free market Darwinism before, though I do believe in some regulations pertaining to monopolies and several other issues.
I've gotten more cautious in my support of 'free market' as a general principle, primarily because so many on the right seem determined that everything must be sacrificed on the altar of Free Trade, and no objections or long term/near term concerns are valid.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 12:09 pm to cokebottleag
Read this (or at least sections II and III) and tell me what you think LINK
I agree that the free market is not an end in itself and that there are some aspects of it that have to be blunted, if for no other reason than to forestall a popular revolution that would swing too far to the left.
But I also think that things like tariffs and minimum wages and other things that primarily work by distorting price signaling are generally just horribly inefficient in terms of giving poor people money compared to just giving poor people money, and they exist primarily for political expediency.
(Minimum wage, for instance, is paid for by deadweight loss in the employment market. But that doesn't show up on a government balance sheet in the same way welfare does, so it's often the first anti-poverty measure "fiscal conservatives" will agree to concede even though it's the least effective.)
I agree that the free market is not an end in itself and that there are some aspects of it that have to be blunted, if for no other reason than to forestall a popular revolution that would swing too far to the left.
But I also think that things like tariffs and minimum wages and other things that primarily work by distorting price signaling are generally just horribly inefficient in terms of giving poor people money compared to just giving poor people money, and they exist primarily for political expediency.
(Minimum wage, for instance, is paid for by deadweight loss in the employment market. But that doesn't show up on a government balance sheet in the same way welfare does, so it's often the first anti-poverty measure "fiscal conservatives" will agree to concede even though it's the least effective.)
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 2/26/16 at 1:34 pm to Old Sarge
We are literally animals, and animals do crazy shite and act irrationally from time to time.
Social conservatives have fricked our country big time. Who gives a good goddamn if gay people want to get married? Abortion? As long as it isn't late term and done humanely Stay outta other folks biz. For the sake of hubris and trying to push their religious values on others, they completely lost and disenfranchised the Country's libertarians, non religious conservatives, and fiscal conservatives.
Social conservatives have fricked our country big time. Who gives a good goddamn if gay people want to get married? Abortion? As long as it isn't late term and done humanely Stay outta other folks biz. For the sake of hubris and trying to push their religious values on others, they completely lost and disenfranchised the Country's libertarians, non religious conservatives, and fiscal conservatives.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 1:48 pm to Masterag
quote:
Abortion? As long as it isn't late term and done humanely Stay outta other folks biz.
I always take particular exception to this argument as someone who is libertarian leaning and anti-abortion. Presenting abortion "rights" and libertarian type ideals as matching up shows ignorance of abortion issues. No third party is involved in gay marriage, but there is a third party involved in abortion in the opinion of some.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 1:53 pm to Projectpat
quote:
but there is a third party involved in abortion in the opinion of some.
Actually there isn't. A non viable fetus is not a person, and it certainly isn't an issue that should make or break a country. shite has been over for decades and people just can't leave it alone. Social Cons aren't "pro life," they're pro birth, cause after that baby is born they couldn't give a damn, then they wanna complain about having their taxes go to unwed mothers. Can't have it both ways.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 1:59 pm to Masterag
quote:
Actually there isn't. A non viable fetus is not a person
My point was that this is the argument. Equating abortion rights stances with government intervention stances is a fallacy. Just state the actual argument instead of attacking a strawman. If you believe a fetus has right as a child would have, you believe abortion is murder, so why would someone argue that murder is too much government intervention?
Posted on 2/26/16 at 1:59 pm to Masterag
quote:
Social Cons aren't "pro life," they're pro birth, cause after that baby is born they couldn't give a damn
Not true.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 1:59 pm to Mirthomatic
quote:How does the saying go? A good compromise leaves both parties dissatisfied?
As for using quickening as the standard, I'm not sure there would be a large portion of activists on either side who would support that. Pro-lifers would consider it too late by far, and pro-choicers would consider it too early by far.
I'd probably have a single late-term exception for maternal health since there may be some life-threatening complications that don't become apparent until then.
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 2/26/16 at 2:01 pm to Masterag
quote:
Social Cons aren't "pro life," they're pro birth, cause after that baby is born they couldn't give a damn, then they wanna complain about having their taxes go to unwed mothers. Can't have it both ways.
except for those of us that foster/adopt, counsel single mothers, mentor at risk youth, or donate clothes and food of course.
statistics tend to point to social conservatives as leading that charge.
not defending the gays stuff that social conservatives do. screw that mess.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 2:07 pm to Masterag
quote:
Social Cons aren't "pro life," they're pro birth, cause after that baby is born they couldn't give a damn
Sorry you didn't grow up with a family and supportive social institutions, but government welfare programs aren't the only way of caring for people once they're born. Your whole comment is disturbing.
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 6:02 pm
Posted on 2/26/16 at 2:12 pm to Masterag
quote:
Social conservatives have fricked our country big time. Who gives a good goddamn if gay people want to get married? Abortion? As long as it isn't late term and done humanely Stay outta other folks biz. For the sake of hubris and trying to push their religious values on others, they completely lost and disenfranchised the Country's libertarians, non religious conservatives, and fiscal conservatives.
I agree with everything except the abortion part.
Americans need to suck it up and deal with consequences. Having an abortion as a 'quick fix' (yes, that's what I heard people call it before) just because you forgot to use birth control makes you a terrible human being. I'm not the religious type, but even I know that this has to be one of the worst things you can do as a person. With several institutions willing to facilitate the adoption process (even anonymously), there is just no excuse to have an abortion.
Outside of complications that could threathen the life of the mother/baby, rape or incest, no one should be allowed to take the life of a baby just because its going to inconvenience them for 9 months. Don't like it? Keep your legs closed.
And before anyone jumps on me with a feminists angle, I also believe the male who put the baby in the oven should be completely liable for all medical costs that are involved with bringing the baby to this world. ALL COSTS. If a woman is going to carry a baby for 9 months, the male should pay for all the expenses for 9 months, plus any medical support needed postnatal.
Gay marriage? I 100% support it. I would also 100% support them if they chose to adopt a child that could have otherwise ended up as an aborted fetus. I'd much rather have that child live in a household and be loved by 2 mothers or 2 father's than to have his/her life taken away.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 2:13 pm to 3nOut
quote:
not defending the gays stuff that social conservatives do. screw that mess.
This. I have enough on my hands full time keeping my own hetero relationship on the up and up to give a frick (pardon the pun) what other consenting adults are doing with their genitalia behind closed doors. Couldn't care less.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 3:05 pm to Iosh
Read the whole thing.
Just a note: Section V reminded me of venture capital, which in large amounts seems to have a severe negative effect on the economy, particularly the tech sector.
The whole premise of II and III ignore the cost of automating those jobs in the case of the 'simple check' is ON TOP OF the cost of the welfare for the unemployed. So its not a one for one.
That nit-picking being done with, I've thought about this specific idea (that many low level jobs now are really just welfare, recycling plants being one of the other main systems) and I do agree.
I don't like minimum wage. BUT, I also don't like the idea of having people doing menial tasks inside the United States for $1 a day, or whatever the market rate for unskilled labor would be without a minimum wage, assuming lack of control of the labor supply (which we have). That's where I differ from libertarians on this. It's not that I 'have a bleeding heart,' I just don't think that it's in our national interest to let the poor sink into such poverty that they have absolutely nothing to lose by violent revolution. You want to call that 'bread and circuses' then fine, maybe it is after a fashion. But Libertarian Free-Market proponents willfully ignore the same things that Marx did: our economy is made up of human beings, not faceless robots or 'Homo Economicus'.
Just a note: Section V reminded me of venture capital, which in large amounts seems to have a severe negative effect on the economy, particularly the tech sector.
The whole premise of II and III ignore the cost of automating those jobs in the case of the 'simple check' is ON TOP OF the cost of the welfare for the unemployed. So its not a one for one.
That nit-picking being done with, I've thought about this specific idea (that many low level jobs now are really just welfare, recycling plants being one of the other main systems) and I do agree.
I don't like minimum wage. BUT, I also don't like the idea of having people doing menial tasks inside the United States for $1 a day, or whatever the market rate for unskilled labor would be without a minimum wage, assuming lack of control of the labor supply (which we have). That's where I differ from libertarians on this. It's not that I 'have a bleeding heart,' I just don't think that it's in our national interest to let the poor sink into such poverty that they have absolutely nothing to lose by violent revolution. You want to call that 'bread and circuses' then fine, maybe it is after a fashion. But Libertarian Free-Market proponents willfully ignore the same things that Marx did: our economy is made up of human beings, not faceless robots or 'Homo Economicus'.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:22 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
New Jersey governor and former Republican candidate Chris Christie is endorsing frontrunner Donald Trump for president, he has announced.
When will you kids learn
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:32 pm to PowerTool
quote:
w up with a family and supportive social institutions, but government welfare programs aren't the only way of caring for people once they're born. Your whole comment is disturbing.
Never said I was for govt taking care of them. I don't wanna pay for other folks kids. If it were up to me you wouldn't get shite for having kids you can't afford. I agree with tax breaks but that's it.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:41 pm to Old Sarge
Rubio just shite a brick on that news.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:43 pm to greenbastard
quote:
Having an abortion as a 'quick fix' (yes, that's what I heard people call it before) just because you forgot to use birth control makes you a terrible human being. I'm not the religious type, but even I know that this has to be one of the worst things you can do as a person. With several institutions willing to facilitate the adoption process (even anonymously), there is just no excuse to have an abortion.
Late term abortions of fully formed fetus' I'd agre with you. But miscarriages in the first couple months happens all the time and we don't think that's some horrible terrible thing.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:44 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
When will you kids learn
You do get that you're ensuring Hillary Clinton is the next President, right?
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:48 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
I don't like minimum wage
If we had our border locked down and illegal Mexicans weren't a dime a dozen then I'd agree with you. That whole jobs Americans won't do is bullshite people say that don't want to pay an American a fair wage. I believe prices would be a little lower for necessary goods and wages would be a little higher, but that ship has sailed. Welcome to fricking Mexico.
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