re: Lets Talk Politics

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Sorry, didn't mean to come on so strongly (although I do feel strongly about the abortion issue). I'd rather not shite-sling, either. Even if it means me dropping the subject itt

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That was in no way directed at your or anybody else. I've just been there before, and I know it leads nowhere. Best to just nip in the bud I guess.

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especially the student loan part, my generation is absolutely burdened in a manner never seen before

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Which was caused by the socialist utopian delusion that "EVERYONE MUST GO TO COLLEGE" and the subsequent government support of student loans, which made them easier to obtain in larger and larger amounts, thus encouraging colleges to raise tuition more and more, all the while, in the background, from the time they can speak, these utopian elements in our society have been telling kids they HAVE to go to college, so they go and take these silly loans because they think they have to. So now the same socialists who created this tuition bubble by having the government involved in the student loan business are bemoaning the size of the loans. LOL

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Well, it is

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Agree to disagree

Medically, scientifically, a fetus and a baby are distinctly different to a certain point. The lines become more blurred that farther into pregnancy you get.

Of course a 36 week old fetus is effectively the same thing as a baby. It can function as a baby in every way outside the womb. A 24 week old fetus? It can survive with highly advanced medical care but cannot live outside the mother naturally. A 12 week fetus? Objectively different on a physiological, anatomical and biochemical level. Such a fetus lacks even basic mammalian consciousness.

So I would agree that a late term abortion could be called murder, and in fact it IS called murder in every state. I disagree that we cannot differentiate at any point and frankly such an absurd position hurts to pro-life movement.

Abortion is an awful practice that exists largely to propagate a lack of personal responsibility, but it's just not the same thing as stabbing a toddler to death.

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There is nothing worse than the single-issue voter.

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I don't mind people who are passionate about an issue, or who support candidates that share their beliefs on that issue. I just think that it is a waste of time if the person you are electing can't change anything about that issue anyway.

I feel the same way about the death penalty. Personally I am against the death penalty, mostly because it costs more to execute a person than life in prison because of the legal standards in place. When I debate people who are pro death penalty their retort is "well it shouldn't be that way, it should be cheaper." Well, it isn't buddy and it will never be for the same reason elected politicians can't change the abortion status quo. If someone supports the death penalty they need to accept that they are supporting paying extra to send a message to potential criminals (or to get revenue on murders, the motivations differ). Pretending that some sort of fantasyland fix for the costs is in the works isn't a rational option.

Too much of our political discourse in this country is based on fantasy narratives instead of reality. I think all the promises Bernie is making are just as impractical as Cruz wanting to stack the Supreme Court or cut off whole departments in the Federal government- it aint happening. And then we wonder why our parties can't agree on common ground- because no one can agree what the ground is!

Unfortunately I see it getting worse before it gets better. Nuanced issues aren't Americans cup of tea, we want easy to digest soundbytes and for all issues to be represented by inaccurate but simple allegories. This election is just proof of that desire for everything to be boiled down to absolutes that can fit within the Twitter character limits.

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Also, for as much as the left likes to talk about racism, I can think of no more racist practice than abortion in terms of net results.

Blacks abort their children at an alarming rate much higher than any other group. Abortion services are marketed to young black women disproportionately. Many of the original abortion supporters in the early and middle 20th century believed it the most effective way to curtail the growth and success of blacks. It effectively serves as a way to limit the number of black children born, especially low income black children. But somehow, talking about the absence of black fathers is racist while the support of abortion in empowering.

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That dog doesn't hunt and it never will because marketing or no marketing, at the end of the day the individual black women themselves are the ones making those decisions. If they're the ones with agency and it's not being forced upon them by whites, the "abortion = black genocide" just comes off as ineffectual pandering.

Black fathers, by contrast, are often deprived of agency by our clusterfrick of a criminal justice system.

I don't disagree with you (though abortion is illegal at 23 weeks in many states), and I couldn't imagine ever aborting a child especially not one my wife was carrying.

My point was the baby pictured would have died had they been born at any point prior to the 1990s or so. It's not "the same thing" as a 40 week old fetus/baby.

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It can survive with highly advanced medical care but cannot live outside the mother naturally.

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It's interesting you choose this point.

There are adults and seniors everywhere that CANNOT live without constant highly specialized medical intervention. Do their lives have no value since they cannot sustain them on their own?

Set a 1,2 or even 3 year old outside on its own, it will die of starvation or exposure. Should that be allowed?

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That dog doesn't hunt and it never will because marketing or no marketing, at the end of the day the individual black women themselves are the ones making those decisions.

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It's not made out to be a decision often times. Studies show that nearly 90% of black woman regret their decision to abort within one year compared to 55% of white women.

Poor minority women tend to be pressured into it. I've seen it first hand sadly. It is often presented as their only choice. And 70% of PP clinics are located in areas where blacks make up the largest single group.

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The only actual question is at what point one recognizes that the individual is a "human", in the sense that it has rights and moral standing.

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I am normally the last person to unthinkingly embrace traditionalism but in this case I think Blackstone and the other early common-law scholars had it right. Quickening makes the most sense, at least until we know more about the neurological basis of consciousness.

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Poor minority women tend to be pressured into it. I've seen it first hand sadly. It is often presented as their only choice. And 70% of PP clinics are located in areas where blacks make up the largest single group.

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All of this.