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re: Why only 11.7 scholarships in baseball?
Posted on 2/16/23 at 12:08 pm to kengel2
Posted on 2/16/23 at 12:08 pm to kengel2
quote:
Also, I've read stuff on here before about how Vandy has an advantage in this regard. Is it because they're private?
NIL should eliminate any advantage Vandy had with this.
Will it? I couldn't pick a single Alabama player out of a line up and have no interest in changing that.
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Posted on 2/16/23 at 12:30 pm to BurntOrangeMan
quote:
BurntOrangeMan
Revenue, specifically ROI.. historical lack there of.
If baseball had more revenue then it would be different. Basically every school always loses money on it.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 12:49 pm to kengel2
quote:
NIL should eliminate any advantage Vandy had with this.
I'm not convinced that NIL is going to play a significant role in college baseball recruiting for high school kids. The best high school baseball prospects, likely those most worthy of NIL money, are going to get drafted and sign. I see NIL playing more of a role in the transfer market.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 1:15 pm to Notrub14
quote:
Will it? I couldn't pick a single Alabama player out of a line up and have no interest in changing that.
It could. Vanderbilts advantage was giving financial aid to students and allowing them to pay what their families could afford towards tuition. NIL could provide the same, we all know what it is supposed to be and we all know what it is, but giving money to supplement a partial baseball scholarship could convince some to go to school instead of the minors.
That being said, not all schools can/will provide the same NIL opportunities, but your big schools collectives should be able to afford to throw some money towards the baseball programs yearly.
Im not saying NIL will make all college baseball teams competitive, Im saying NIL will help public schools close the "legally cheating" gap that Vandy/Rice/etc. have.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 1:24 pm to kengel2
quote:
NIL should eliminate any advantage Vandy had with this.
For the extremely few programs who could get any sort of NIL money together for baseball players, but overall no, NIL will have very little effect there.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 1:28 pm to UltimaParadox
quote:
If baseball had more revenue then it would be different. Basically every school always loses money on it.
I know people say this but every sport loses money on average in the NCAA except football and mens basketball. There are plenty of other sports with more than 11.7 scholarships that also have a net loss on the P&L for programs. Men's Ice Hockey gets 18 scholarships. Mens C.C., track and field and Lacrosse get more scholarships than baseball.
Women's basketball gets 15 scholarships (2 more than men). Women's equestrian gets 15 scholarships. Field Hockey gets 12. Rowing gets 20!
It's a Title IX issue, bottom line.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 1:39 pm to MetroAtlantaGatorFan
quote:
Also, I've read stuff on here before about how Vandy has an advantage in this regard. Is it because they're private?
baseball is not considered a "counter" sport like football and basketball.
In football and basketball, if an athlete receives any financial aid from the school at all, they count against your scholarship limit.
meaning even if a football player qualifies for a full academic ride, that scholarship still counts against the 85 scholly limit.
Baseball, however does not.
LSU uses programs like TOPS to offset scholarship costs to instate players, etc.
Vandy has multiple options.
They do what is called a legacy scholarship where if a kid meets certain parameters, they cover the full ride.
They also have a program where you basically pay whatever you can afford as long as you meet minimum academic requirements to get in.
So technically speaking, Vanderbilt can legally pay the full amount for everyone on their team.
LSU on the other hand is limited by state rules and requirements, and can not do that even if they wanted to.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 1:48 pm to MetroAtlantaGatorFan
Vandy has the private school advantage due to No scholarship limits.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 1:55 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
I know people say this but every sport loses money on average in the NCAA except football and mens basketball.
Not quite true
There are actual expenses assigned to a sport
Then there are "questionable" expenses assigned to a sport
If you ever saw how money moves through the movie business you will know exactly what I mean.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 1:55 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
I know people say this but every sport loses money on average in the NCAA except football and mens basketball. There are plenty of other sports with more than 11.7 scholarships that also have a net loss on the P&L for programs. Men's Ice Hockey gets 18 scholarships. Mens C.C., track and field and Lacrosse get more scholarships than baseball.
Women's basketball gets 15 scholarships (2 more than men). Women's equestrian gets 15 scholarships. Field Hockey gets 12. Rowing gets 20!
It's a Title IX issue, bottom line.
It's a title 9 issue because schools don't want to spend their football money funding more sports than they have to. With the SEC yearly football payout, every SEC school can afford to fund scholarships for every athletic team at higher scholarship levels than they do now. But they want to use that money for other things, so they don't.
Stanford gets around title 9 by fully funding scholarships for EVERY possible sport. They have something like 38 scholarship sports while UGA has something like 21 or 22. If you fund every sport, you're in compliance with title 9 even though you're not proportional. If you don't want to spend that money, you have to go proportional scholarships to the makeup of the student body. If you're 50/50 male/female, then you have to have the same number of male sports scholarships as female ones if you don't want to fund everything.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 2:00 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
For the extremely few programs who could get any sort of NIL money together for baseball players, but overall no, NIL will have very little effect there.
It will certainly have an effect for some schools.
This is end of my last post right above yours:
quote:
Im not saying NIL will make all college baseball teams competitive, Im saying NIL will help public schools close the "legally cheating" gap that Vandy/Rice/etc. have.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 2:01 pm to Smokeyone
quote:
Vandy has the private school advantage due to No scholarship limits.
Not true, Vandy is an academic school with a big endowment. UVA is public and does the same thing.
Since you have to be smart to attend they can offer partial or full rides based on GPA and not times at bat.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 2:07 pm to kengel2
quote:
It will certainly have an effect for some schools.
Very very few schools, you have to understand baseball is only even noticed at a very few select schools, and only some of those will put any real effort to give players any real NIL money.
Collectives could help more, but again, why would the collectives invest so much into a sport maybe that has no following where they are.
This post was edited on 2/16/23 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 2/16/23 at 2:12 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Not quite true
It's definitely true, on average, which is why I prefaced it with that. Yes there are some baseball teams in the green, even some hockey teams, maybe even some other whatever sport teams at whatever school because it's big there.
But on average, only football and mens basketball run in the green for athletic departments from a P&L perspective.
Basically almost every school is 100% losing money if they are offering 20 rowing scholarships out, especially if say you're a private school thats expensive (Where a lot of rowing would even exist).
This post was edited on 2/16/23 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 2/16/23 at 2:22 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Collectives could help more, but again, why would the collectives invest so much into a sport maybe that has no following where they are.
With the amount of nil money already being thrown around in college football with no real benefit to the donors, I dont really know what to think anymore.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 2:30 pm to MetroAtlantaGatorFan
The Benjamin's..baseball doesn't produce
Posted on 2/16/23 at 3:53 pm to kengel2
NIL will be most beneficial in baseball for state schools with relatively cheap tuition (which means mostly for instate students). If A&M is offering a kid a 50% scholarship, and he can earn $10,000 in NIL, that's getting pretty close to paying your way. Won't cover everything, but it makes A&M as attractive as a need based scholarship to Vandy (which is essentially what they have -- everyone doesn't go for free, but everyone gets need based aid).
Posted on 2/16/23 at 3:56 pm to twk
NIL is huge for A&M this year. Not because it attracted some elite transfers, but we were able to bring back a bunch of guys who were more potentially 10-20 round picks last year. But the opportunity to finish the degree, give it one last shot at Omaha, and some extra 0s in the old bank account kept them around.
Posted on 2/16/23 at 3:57 pm to rtr23242526
quote:
The Benjamin's..baseball doesn't produce
neither does w basketball but they give scholarships to those skanks, explain that dumb arse
This post was edited on 2/16/23 at 4:06 pm
Posted on 2/16/23 at 4:10 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
It's definitely true, on average, which is why I prefaced it with that.
OK, I am retired and not as day to day but did time in Finance and colleges and universities can pad the numbers like no others. Their "entertainment" business is no different than academics or research. Very bloated starting in the 80's but really picked up speed in the past 20 years or so. What other business (and I do use business, not education) has grown at 6% to 12% a year since the 80's.
When you paid an AD 200K and the next AD that follows them gets 2M, show me where else that happens? Yes, on the books it looks like almost nobody makes $$$$ but that is just the facade so they can tell donors how broke they are. If the IRS ever went after college sports it would be the end of college sports (or at least bring it back to reasonable numbers).
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