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re: When does possession start on a fumble recovery? Mond vs Brooks and SEC refs
Posted on 11/6/22 at 11:40 am to lsupride87
Posted on 11/6/22 at 11:40 am to lsupride87
That was a BS call. LSU dude had the ball in his possession and his knee was down before Gump slaps it out of his hands.
They were trying their best to give the game to the Gumps.
They were trying their best to give the game to the Gumps.
This post was edited on 11/6/22 at 11:41 am
1
Posted on 11/6/22 at 11:50 am to LunaFreak
Bad thing about that play is Bama retained possession. They only ended up with a fg to go into the half down 7-6 along with receiving the 2nd half kickoff. If the fumble were granted to LSU, LSU has a chance at 7-3, 10-3, or even 14-3 going into half. That was a pivotal moment in the course of the game.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:00 pm to lsupride87
I’m not a fan of the rule but it is technically correct here. For anyone actually interested in why, here goes. To understand it, you need to look at 3 rules.
1) Latu loses ball.
2) with a loose ball, the prior possessing (Latu here) player can hit, swat, kick, etc. the ball to move it any direction (an impetus)
AND
3) If the person hitting the ball is out of bounds, then the ball is dead unless there is a clear recovery before it’s hit.
4) Recovering player must have firm grasp for possession to change.
5) Does Brooks then have possession BEFORE latu hits ball?
A) He has not pulled the ball to his chest so you think no and it’s confirmed
B) since the ball is easily swatted away.
And rulebook:
NCAA rules 2022
1) Latu loses ball.
2) with a loose ball, the prior possessing (Latu here) player can hit, swat, kick, etc. the ball to move it any direction (an impetus)
AND
3) If the person hitting the ball is out of bounds, then the ball is dead unless there is a clear recovery before it’s hit.
4) Recovering player must have firm grasp for possession to change.
5) Does Brooks then have possession BEFORE latu hits ball?
A) He has not pulled the ball to his chest so you think no and it’s confirmed
B) since the ball is easily swatted away.
And rulebook:
NCAA rules 2022
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:15 pm to ceretonia
To say you have to have the ball secured and brought to your chest is absolutely wrong. If a player picks up a fumble holds it in one hand and runs for a touchdown did he never secure the ball. This play is an LSU fumble recovery. And a guy out of bounds knocking it out of his hands. Knocking the ball out of a players hands in no way means the player didn’t have possession of the ball.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:23 pm to lctiger
quote:
To say you have to have the ball secured and brought to your chest is absolutely wrong.
I didn’t say that. But Brooks is attempting to do so here to complete possession. What you are failing to see is that CUSTODY belongs to the offense and latu here.
If there isn’t CLEAR evidence of possession here, then possession is never established and custody goes back to the offense. Can you clearly say he had a firm grasp on the ball there? Especially given that it is swatted away milliseconds later.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:25 pm to BigDropper
Here’s the strange thing: quite a few of the LSU players were wearing those same yellow colored pants last night and Brooks isn’t the only black player on the team. So, nothing you’ve cited as “proof” it is Brooks’ right knee is actually proof.
But tell you what: if you post a picture of yourself with your arms stretched out in front of your body with both hands on a football and your right knee in your armpit and your left knee up underneath your body and not touching the ground, I will believe what you say is true even though you have no evidence of it actually being true. Deal?
But even if it was his right knee in that frame, his left knee clearly touched the turf while he had 2 hands on the ball and before the Alabama player touched it.
Not sure why you want to argue this point but enjoy. Geaux Tigers!
But tell you what: if you post a picture of yourself with your arms stretched out in front of your body with both hands on a football and your right knee in your armpit and your left knee up underneath your body and not touching the ground, I will believe what you say is true even though you have no evidence of it actually being true. Deal?
But even if it was his right knee in that frame, his left knee clearly touched the turf while he had 2 hands on the ball and before the Alabama player touched it.
Not sure why you want to argue this point but enjoy. Geaux Tigers!
This post was edited on 11/6/22 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:29 pm to ceretonia
quote:So clear possession for mond was the millisecond his hand touched the top of the ball, because they called him down and the only time both his knee was on the ground and contact with the ball was the split second when he first touched the ball
I’m not a fan of the rule but it is technically correct here. For anyone actually interested in why, here goes. To understand it, you need to look at 3 rules.
But brooks having the ball in both hands isnt possession. Both can’t be true. They got one call wrong
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:30 pm to thetruth2006
quote:
Here’s the strange thing: quite a few of the LSU players were wearing those same yellow colored pants last night and Brooks isn’t the only black player on the team. So, nothing you’ve cited as “proof” it is Brooks’ right knee is actually proof.
This. Based on the replays, Brooks was laid out going for the ball and his knee was indeed down before the receiver touched it. Did he have control is still a hard thing to say in the replay though, which is why I expected the play on the field would stand. Guess the home office wanted a different outcome.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:30 pm to ceretonia
quote:Not how it works chief. The call on the field was possession lsu.
If there isn’t CLEAR evidence of possession here, then possession is never established and custody goes back to the offense. Can you clearly say he had a firm grasp on the ball there? Especially given that it is swatted away milliseconds later.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:37 pm to thetruth2006
quote:Are you suggesting that the two knees in this picture do not belong to Brooks and that they could belong to any other LSU player, even though the closest LSU player (Sage Ryan #15) can be seen in the back ground
Here’s the strange thing: quite a few of the LSU players were wearing those same yellow colored pants last night and Brooks isn’t the only black player on the team.
Even though this video conclusively shows Brooks in that exact same position attempting to recover the football.
LINK
Is that what you are suggesting?
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:40 pm to lsupride87
All this ambiguity in calls is really watering down the product.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:41 pm to lsupride87
quote:
So clear possession for mond was the millisecond his hand touched the top of the ball, because they called him down and the only time both his knee was on the ground and contact with the ball was the split second when he first touched the ball
The Mond is more iffy to me. But CUSTODY is different in both examples (A&M in that one. Bama in second). The ruling there was actually an impetus by a downed ball carrier on a loose ball - Mind’s knee is down — BEFORE recovery. He actually never recovers it. It was determined to be a dead ball and returned to team prior in custody.
As I stated, I’m not a fan of the impetus shite.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:45 pm to ceretonia
How can you “swat away” something from somebody that doesn’t have it. You would simply be swatting it. The term away in your argument is evidence that the recovering player has it.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:45 pm to White Tiger
Does not matter if knee is down or not. If there is possession (and there is ), as soon as Bama touches the ball it is lsu possession and he is out of bounds. Simple as that.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:49 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Not how it works chief. The call on the field was possession lsu.
It is how it works in terms of possession, sir. You’re misinterpreting what you hear people on television. If I pointed a gun to your head, could you clearly say he had a FIRM GRASP on the ball based on what you see?
If not, irrefutable evidence that calling it a clear possession change is incorrect.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:53 pm to ceretonia
Can you be bringing something to your chest that you don’t have a grasp of?
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:54 pm to lctiger
quote:FIRM GRASP is the definition.
Can you be bringing something to your chest that you don’t have a grasp of?
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:56 pm to ceretonia
LSU player didn't have possession of it. Full stop.
It's a weird play and a rule that produced something that doesn't feel right (UA retaining the ball), but they got the call correct.
It's a weird play and a rule that produced something that doesn't feel right (UA retaining the ball), but they got the call correct.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:57 pm to lctiger
quote:
How can you “swat away” something from somebody that doesn’t have it. You would simply be swatting it. The term away in your argument is evidence that the recovering player has it.
Again FIRM GRASP. He’s attempting to grasp it but hadn’t met the condition required for possession.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 12:57 pm to BigDropper
I’m suggesting 3 things:
1. You have provided no proof that the knee in that one screenshot is Brooks’ knee. Maybe it is, but that screenshot and all else you have said and shown does not alone proves it is.
2. Before the Alabama player touched the ball while out of bounds, Brooks’ left knee touched the turf at a time he also had 2 hands on the ball. If Mond for A&M was down and play ruled over with 29 seconds left in the LSU @ A&M game in 2018, the same has to be true with Brooks on that play last night.
3. No clue why you are trying so hard to argue that the call was legitimate - especially in light of 1. and 2. above.
But Tigers won despite the questionable officiating that happens in every SEC game and appears to more frequently than not benefit Alabama vs all other teams. So, enjoying the win and done with you.
Have a good day and Geaux Tigers!
1. You have provided no proof that the knee in that one screenshot is Brooks’ knee. Maybe it is, but that screenshot and all else you have said and shown does not alone proves it is.
2. Before the Alabama player touched the ball while out of bounds, Brooks’ left knee touched the turf at a time he also had 2 hands on the ball. If Mond for A&M was down and play ruled over with 29 seconds left in the LSU @ A&M game in 2018, the same has to be true with Brooks on that play last night.
3. No clue why you are trying so hard to argue that the call was legitimate - especially in light of 1. and 2. above.
But Tigers won despite the questionable officiating that happens in every SEC game and appears to more frequently than not benefit Alabama vs all other teams. So, enjoying the win and done with you.
Have a good day and Geaux Tigers!
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