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re: Realignment...B1G going after 2 more ACC schools?
Posted on 2/20/13 at 10:41 am to aggressor
Posted on 2/20/13 at 10:41 am to aggressor
BTW, imo if UNC/UVA go to the Big 1G the best thing the SEC can do is stand pat. The SEC doesn't need to expand. They already have the best conference and soon to be best TV deal by a mile. Adding NC State and VTech carry a lot more risk than many here realize. There is no guarantee they can even get the SEC Network picked up in both of their states on every carrier, esp at the kind of premiums the SEC will want to charge. It's also very possible that neither school is competitive in football or any other sport outside of NC State being decent in basketball. Neither school is AAU so that is another knock.
Adding just to add is foolish. Worst case those schools go Big 12 or wherever and the SEC can come calling later.
Adding just to add is foolish. Worst case those schools go Big 12 or wherever and the SEC can come calling later.
2
Posted on 2/20/13 at 10:53 am to aggressor
quote:I'm starting to come around to this view. In a sense, we'd almost be making it easier for UVA and UNC to go to the Big Ten by taking care of their sister institutions and blocking the political heat that might otherwise be heaped upon UVA and UNC for breaking up the ACC and going to the Big Ten on their own. If the SEC were to let it be known that they were only interested in UNC and UVA (or perhaps UNC/Duke), and would not make a move otherwise, it would change the politics of a Big Ten move for UVA and UNC.
BTW, imo if UNC/UVA go to the Big 1G the best thing the SEC can do is stand pat. The SEC doesn't need to expand. They already have the best conference and soon to be best TV deal by a mile. Adding NC State and VTech carry a lot more risk than many here realize. There is no guarantee they can even get the SEC Network picked up in both of their states on every carrier, esp at the kind of premiums the SEC will want to charge. It's also very possible that neither school is competitive in football or any other sport outside of NC State being decent in basketball. Neither school is AAU so that is another knock. Adding just to add is foolish. Worst case those schools go Big 12 or wherever and the SEC can come calling later.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 11:52 am to twk
It took me a while to get there but that is how I see it as well. This realignment stuff is tricky because it is so complicated with so many moving parts. The SEC has to remember that it is still in the strongest position. It has the best brand. It has the most money. It has the most programs that take football seriously. Adding just to get to 16 is stupid. You only add if it makes the conference stronger.
I also don't mean to bag on NC State and VT so much, I like both schools and both have a lot to offer. I just don't think either is a slam dunk fit for the SEC. They just look attractive because of some of the other options. VT is not FSU or Clemson in terms of football prowess by any stretch but of course FSU and Clemson are off the table because of location. It is also no sure thing that VT stays good after Beamer retires and he is 66 now. I just don't see it at all for NC State. I just don't see how teams that can't dominate in the ACC are going to have a prayer in the SEC. It's different than when A&M came and suddenly got a huge new recruiting advantage over Texas and OU. UVA and UNC aren't exactly powerhouse programs in football either so who are they going to "steal" from?
With UVA and UNC they aren't great football programs but their other strengths make up for it. They also have the resources to be relevant in football if they chose to be, they both have very deep pockets and a lot of donors with huge amounts of cash. If they made it a priority to be a strong football school they could do so. Both schools have a deathgrip on political power in their states as well.
One other thought on the UNC/Duke suggestion as well. The SEC may be the only conference that is so strong in football it can sacrifice some of that to add academic heavyweights and basketball. Add those 2 schools and the SEC is not only the strongest football conference but the strongest basketball conference as well. By themselves they would drop the average US News academic ranking of the SEC by 10 points and over time it will be more as the other schools benefit by being associated with them. It would make 6 of the 16 schools AAU members and be enough to likely push UGA, Bama, and maybe Auburn into the AAU. Realize that membership in the AAU would have a more lasting financial impact on a school than a NC in football and Presidents are the ones that vote.
I also don't mean to bag on NC State and VT so much, I like both schools and both have a lot to offer. I just don't think either is a slam dunk fit for the SEC. They just look attractive because of some of the other options. VT is not FSU or Clemson in terms of football prowess by any stretch but of course FSU and Clemson are off the table because of location. It is also no sure thing that VT stays good after Beamer retires and he is 66 now. I just don't see it at all for NC State. I just don't see how teams that can't dominate in the ACC are going to have a prayer in the SEC. It's different than when A&M came and suddenly got a huge new recruiting advantage over Texas and OU. UVA and UNC aren't exactly powerhouse programs in football either so who are they going to "steal" from?
With UVA and UNC they aren't great football programs but their other strengths make up for it. They also have the resources to be relevant in football if they chose to be, they both have very deep pockets and a lot of donors with huge amounts of cash. If they made it a priority to be a strong football school they could do so. Both schools have a deathgrip on political power in their states as well.
One other thought on the UNC/Duke suggestion as well. The SEC may be the only conference that is so strong in football it can sacrifice some of that to add academic heavyweights and basketball. Add those 2 schools and the SEC is not only the strongest football conference but the strongest basketball conference as well. By themselves they would drop the average US News academic ranking of the SEC by 10 points and over time it will be more as the other schools benefit by being associated with them. It would make 6 of the 16 schools AAU members and be enough to likely push UGA, Bama, and maybe Auburn into the AAU. Realize that membership in the AAU would have a more lasting financial impact on a school than a NC in football and Presidents are the ones that vote.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 11:53 am to twk
I'm certain Slive won't make the first move. Let Delaney kill the ACC and then move in. No reason to shake up the status quo because we're winning on and off the field. But if it does get shaken up, make your move.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 12:10 pm to aggressor
I disagree. If the B1G takes UNC and UVA, that is a pretty solid move. Should the SEC sit around and let the ACC merge with the Big Twatever and cut the SEC out of those markets? If I'm the shot caller, I make a move for those two markets. Virginia and North Carolina coupled with the rest of the south and Texas, all other conferences will have to combine to overtake the SEC's footprint. I couldn't pass up that opportunity.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 12:16 pm to KaiserSoze99
I agree that if the B1G gets both UNC and UVA that will be a good move for the B1G and bad for the SEC. I'm not in favor of any expansion anywhere right now but I do hope if UNC and/or UVA is contemplating a move the SEC will at least say hi.
I'd be fine if the SEC ends up with UNC and VT or UNC and Duke. I don't give a damn about UVA and they don't give a damn about big time sports. I'll live with it if the SEC ends up with NC State and VT, but I'll consider that a bit of a loss for the SEC. So ideally, no more moves for a while, but if there are going to be moves, I'm hoping for UNC and Duke or UNC and VT.
I'd be fine if the SEC ends up with UNC and VT or UNC and Duke. I don't give a damn about UVA and they don't give a damn about big time sports. I'll live with it if the SEC ends up with NC State and VT, but I'll consider that a bit of a loss for the SEC. So ideally, no more moves for a while, but if there are going to be moves, I'm hoping for UNC and Duke or UNC and VT.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 1:21 pm to BossaGator
I agree with you.
I think it would be somewhat of a let down to miss out on UNC, but also a let down to miss out on the Virginia market. It's a tough decision, but here is how I would prioritize it, based on the programs and markets available:
1. UNC and VT -- In my opinion this would maximize the SEC's footprint WHILE providing the best quality athletic programs available.
2. UNC and UVA -- Virginia doesn't care about sports as much as they should or did in the past, but maybe a move to the SEC would renew their commitment and excite the fan base. We still get both VA and NC markets.
3. NC State and VT -- NC State is not great in athletics, but not completely terrible either. Maybe the coupling with the SEC lifts their brand like it did for A&M. SEC still gets the NC markets.
4. NC State and UVA -- Not quite as "sexy" as version #3, but still workable. SEC still get's both markets.
5. UNC and Dook -- Both these programs have huge, national fan bases in basketball. While the VA market remains untapped, it could be a wash in terms of overall athletic interest and footprint. Still, football is king, and these two are queens, so it would not be as big an addition as two football schools. Maybe the SEC will lift their football programs to a respectable level or at least give UGA/USCe/UF another couple of whipping boys.
5. FSU and VT -- This is a really no-go. Florida would be making a HUGE concession by agreeing to lose the SEC monopoly in FL. If they opposed it, you can bet that A&M, USCe, and probably UK will be in their corner. The move is not as good as adding BOTH NC and VA markets, but purely from an excitement standpoint, this would be a good combo.
6. FSU and UNC -- Not going to happen, and not quite as good from an excitement standpoint.
7. Clemson and VT -- Same as with FSU. Probably enough other schools will vote against it. It's not even close to optimal in terms of increasing the footprint. At least FL has a lot more TVs to add. If we're not going to add good markets, add a better football brand and go with FSU.
8. Clemson and NC State -- Not as sexy as above.
9. Clemson and UVA -- No as sexy as 8
10. Clemson and FSU -- Very sexy in terms of interest, but adds NOTHING or very little to the footprint.
11. VT and UVA -- This is somewhat meh on both fronts, but more likely than adding any combination that includes Clemson or FSU.
12. OU and (in order of best to worst on both footprint and fan interest: VT, UNC, UVA, NC State, FSU, Clemson) -- Oklahoma is a small, shitty state with very little in terms of footprint.
13. The fricking Longhorns and (frick it, anybody) -- I will try to put aside my personal feelings toward the burnt-orange buttpirates....trying....really....hard.....
It would be a good "interest" move, but even less likely than FSU or Clemson. The voting block against it would be A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Florida, USCe, Kentucky, and probably at least Alabama or Tennessee. These arrogant fricks have made enemies all over the globe and have PROVEN time and again to be the shittiest of business partners.
Best adds in terms of pure interest:
1. FSU
2. The fricking Longhorns
3. VT
4. OU
5. Clemson
6. UNC
7. UVA
8. NC State
Footprint expansion:
1. UNC
2. VT
3. UVA
4. NC State
5. OU
6. The fricking Longhorns
7. Clemson
I think it would be somewhat of a let down to miss out on UNC, but also a let down to miss out on the Virginia market. It's a tough decision, but here is how I would prioritize it, based on the programs and markets available:
1. UNC and VT -- In my opinion this would maximize the SEC's footprint WHILE providing the best quality athletic programs available.
2. UNC and UVA -- Virginia doesn't care about sports as much as they should or did in the past, but maybe a move to the SEC would renew their commitment and excite the fan base. We still get both VA and NC markets.
3. NC State and VT -- NC State is not great in athletics, but not completely terrible either. Maybe the coupling with the SEC lifts their brand like it did for A&M. SEC still gets the NC markets.
4. NC State and UVA -- Not quite as "sexy" as version #3, but still workable. SEC still get's both markets.
5. UNC and Dook -- Both these programs have huge, national fan bases in basketball. While the VA market remains untapped, it could be a wash in terms of overall athletic interest and footprint. Still, football is king, and these two are queens, so it would not be as big an addition as two football schools. Maybe the SEC will lift their football programs to a respectable level or at least give UGA/USCe/UF another couple of whipping boys.
5. FSU and VT -- This is a really no-go. Florida would be making a HUGE concession by agreeing to lose the SEC monopoly in FL. If they opposed it, you can bet that A&M, USCe, and probably UK will be in their corner. The move is not as good as adding BOTH NC and VA markets, but purely from an excitement standpoint, this would be a good combo.
6. FSU and UNC -- Not going to happen, and not quite as good from an excitement standpoint.
7. Clemson and VT -- Same as with FSU. Probably enough other schools will vote against it. It's not even close to optimal in terms of increasing the footprint. At least FL has a lot more TVs to add. If we're not going to add good markets, add a better football brand and go with FSU.
8. Clemson and NC State -- Not as sexy as above.
9. Clemson and UVA -- No as sexy as 8
10. Clemson and FSU -- Very sexy in terms of interest, but adds NOTHING or very little to the footprint.
11. VT and UVA -- This is somewhat meh on both fronts, but more likely than adding any combination that includes Clemson or FSU.
12. OU and (in order of best to worst on both footprint and fan interest: VT, UNC, UVA, NC State, FSU, Clemson) -- Oklahoma is a small, shitty state with very little in terms of footprint.
13. The fricking Longhorns and (frick it, anybody) -- I will try to put aside my personal feelings toward the burnt-orange buttpirates....trying....really....hard.....
It would be a good "interest" move, but even less likely than FSU or Clemson. The voting block against it would be A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Florida, USCe, Kentucky, and probably at least Alabama or Tennessee. These arrogant fricks have made enemies all over the globe and have PROVEN time and again to be the shittiest of business partners.
Best adds in terms of pure interest:
1. FSU
2. The fricking Longhorns
3. VT
4. OU
5. Clemson
6. UNC
7. UVA
8. NC State
Footprint expansion:
1. UNC
2. VT
3. UVA
4. NC State
5. OU
6. The fricking Longhorns
7. Clemson
Posted on 2/20/13 at 1:22 pm to EvilVodka
If UNC wants SEC, we take them with either VaTech or Duke (preferably VaTech, but Duke if necessary). If UNC wants Big10, then we take NCState and VaTech.
It's as simple as that. Ball is in UNC's court to decide what they want: Big10 or SEC. Once they decide, all the rest of the dominos will fall into place.
My guess is UNC will go with the Big10 (along with UVA). SEC will add NcState + VaTech. Big10 happy, SEC - albeit not our first choice - happy.
Big winners in all of this (in order): Big10, SEC, Big12 (all solidify themselves as THE major players in college sports)..... Big Losers: ACC huge loser and may even cease to exist when all is said and done, Pac12 (smaller loser as they are still one of the big boys, but they certainly fall behind the other 3 major conferences longterm)
It's as simple as that. Ball is in UNC's court to decide what they want: Big10 or SEC. Once they decide, all the rest of the dominos will fall into place.
My guess is UNC will go with the Big10 (along with UVA). SEC will add NcState + VaTech. Big10 happy, SEC - albeit not our first choice - happy.
Big winners in all of this (in order): Big10, SEC, Big12 (all solidify themselves as THE major players in college sports)..... Big Losers: ACC huge loser and may even cease to exist when all is said and done, Pac12 (smaller loser as they are still one of the big boys, but they certainly fall behind the other 3 major conferences longterm)
This post was edited on 2/20/13 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 2/20/13 at 1:43 pm to JPLSU1981
quote:
If UNC wants SEC, we take them with either VaTech or Duke (preferably VaTech, but Duke if necessary). If UNC wants Big10, then we take NCState and VaTech.
It's as simple as that. Ball is in UNC's court to decide what they want: Big10 or SEC. Once they decide, all the rest of the dominos will fall into place.
My guess is UNC will go with the Big10 (along with UVA). SEC will add NcState + VaTech. Big10 happy, SEC - albeit not our first choice - happy.
Big winners in all of this (in order): Big10, SEC, Big12..... Big Losers: ACC huge loser, Pac12 smaller loser, but falls behind the other 3 major conferences
All comes down to the Maryland/ACC lawsuit....I tend to think it Swofford somehow makes the $50 million stick, the ACC survives.
If not, it probably doesn't take long for UVA (and maybe GT) to bolt to the B1G. Then FSU and Clemson to the Big 12. At that point, UNC probably has an "exploding offer" from both the SEC and B1G it will have to act on. The SEC probably would take either VT or dook along with UNC, but if we balk, they probably move to NCSt and VT....
This post was edited on 2/20/13 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 2/20/13 at 2:01 pm to 4LifeTarHeel4Life
You may have already stated, but which would you prefer--SEC, B1G, or stay in the ACC?
Posted on 2/20/13 at 2:19 pm to EvilVodka
quote:
Texas
Texas A&M
LSU
Ole Miss
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Georgia
FSU
Florida
9 game conference schedule...it would be the best conference ever
Swap out Texas for Kentucky and you could have something. Need to keep our one decent basketball program.
Texas sounds nice and all on paper but their drama just isn't worth it.
And the SECCG would be greatly missed. So keep Carolina and Arkansas just so we can have 12 and preserve the best conference title game in the history of ever.
Mizzou and Vanderbilt -- you'll be missed.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 2:31 pm to KaiserSoze99
quote:
I agree with you.
I think it would be somewhat of a let down to miss out on UNC, but also a let down to miss out on the Virginia market. It's a tough decision, but here is how I would prioritize it, based on the programs and markets available:
Great post. I'm being a bit harsh on UVA. I find them snooty, obnoxious, and somewhat pussified in general but the truth is they'd be a great get for either conference. UNC and UVA to the SEC would be pretty epic. If the SEC were to end up with NC State my hope is that NC State buries UNC football forever. With the right moves and preparation (following A&M's lead) it could be done. Not to imply that A&M has buried Texas football, although it may help bury MAck Brown Texas Football. But you know what I mean. Take all the best NC recruits, gather bigger donations, have bigger games, and generally relegate UNC into obscurity in football.
But I still hope UNC joins the SEC first. If so IMO it will inevitably do that to NC State.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 2:36 pm to KaiserSoze99
quote:
You may have already stated, but which would you prefer--SEC, B1G, or stay in the ACC?
All things equal, would probably rather stay in the ACC. I personally think the rush to super conferences will lead to a bubble that bursts, eventually.
But should things continue to deteriorate as they seem to be on the verge of, SEC all day every day over the B1G. Personally I'm not a fan of this era of expansion, but definitely don't want UNC to be left behind.
Would love for Carolina to be in the SEC east with trips every other year here in Nashville, Knoxville, Athens, etc. In football, I think it would increase our ability to keep SEC schools from poaching NC more than it would help current SEC members. Hopefully that would help get the program back to where it was when Mack was in Chapel Hill....
Posted on 2/20/13 at 3:04 pm to aggressor
quote:
They already have the best conference and soon to be best TV deal by a mile
Do they teach math at Texas A&M? Because if you do the math you'll realize that the Big Ten pretty much has the best TV deal thing sewn up for a long time starting in 2017. It's all about the number of subscribers in the geographic region and the SEC has no chance to catch the Big Ten in that regard. The Big Ten has a MUCH larger population base.
This post was edited on 2/20/13 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 2/20/13 at 3:14 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Do they teach math at Texas A&M? Because if you do the math you'll realize that the Big Ten pretty much has the best TV deal thing sewn up for a long time starting in 2017. It's all about the number of subscribers in the geographic region and the SEC has no chance to catch the Big Ten in that regard. The Big Ten has a MUCH larger population base.
Ultimately the B1G's business plan is to force cable subscribers to pay more for a crappy on field product. I just don't see how that's a good plan for the future. That's even assuming one buys the B1G's constant puffery about its projections and believes that the SEC isn't going to negotiate its payout upwards to reflect that market.
The SEC's plan is based on giving people something they want to see. The B1G's plan is based on getting cable providers to sneak charges into cable packages for something most of the viewers aren't going to care to watch. I like our model better.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 3:49 pm to BossaGator
quote:
The Big Ten has a MUCH larger population base.
Maybe I'm missing a state somewhere, but if I can do maths correctly with my Texas A&M edumacation I find that Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and New Jersey is roughly 86 million while the population of Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina is 92 million with the second group of states being states that are generally growing while the first group is stagnant or slow growth.
I may need you to teach me.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 4:02 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Do they teach math at Texas A&M? Because if you do the math you'll realize that the Big Ten pretty much has the best TV deal thing sewn up for a long time starting in 2017. It's all about the number of subscribers in the geographic region and the SEC has no chance to catch the Big Ten in that regard. The Big Ten has a MUCH larger population base.
This is what happens when yankees think we're a bunch of backward, dumbass, hillbilly, racists with an average of a 2nd grade education. You yankees should generally shut the frick up.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 4:02 pm to TheSandman
It was supposed to break weeks ago. UNC and DUKE are package deal
Posted on 2/20/13 at 4:06 pm to TutHillTiger
It is all about TV money and that means ratings aka number of people that watch the damn thing not number of people living in a state. Calf has more TV's than probably the whole damn South yet about 50 of them may watch a Cal football game. and when it is said it done the SEC will have the best deal, as the highest rated football games over last few years have all involved SEC teams. I think LSU bama last two years has had historic ratings.
Posted on 2/20/13 at 4:07 pm to TutHillTiger
and yes Bubba them there tv's in the double wides count just a smuch as them there TV's in berkley mansions.
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