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Oklahoma fans……I’m requesting a full explanation of what the hell happened last year
Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:49 pm
And I am genuinely curious. The average fan just shouts “Venables sucks” but we are talking about the complete collapse of the 21st century’s most consistent team. I get that Caleb Williams and several others transferred, but that can’t be all that happened. What’s the real story here?
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Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:50 pm to MillerLiteTime
A blue blood hired a guy that had never been a head coach before.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:51 pm to MillerLiteTime
Their head coach was awesome when he was stealing the opposing offenses signals. When that stopped - he became less awesome. And yet they still hired him anyways.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:55 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
A blue blood hired a guy that had never been a head coach before.
Like Bob Stoops? Or Kirby Smart?
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:01 pm to AHM21
quote:
Their head coach was awesome when he was stealing the opposing offenses signals. When that stopped - he became less awesome. And yet they still hired him anyways.
The Oklahoma program was on auto-pilot for a 10+ win season in an easy Big12. I’m not buying that this is all on Venables.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:09 pm to MillerLiteTime
What happened was injuries at bad times and that defense was straight dogshit
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:15 pm to MillerLiteTime
As an OU fan here is what happened... (besides what the OP already mentioned).
1) Multiple fourth quarter melt downs. Particularly on defense. Offense participated as well.
2) No back up QB. 49-0 to Texas and thumping by TCU might have been "respectable losses" with a healthy Dillon Gabriel.
3) With the exception of Eric Gray, nobody on the team that had played a lot the year before made marked improvement.
4) Talent available was overrated compared to their recruiting rankings.
5) OU's defense couldn't adjust to Venables philosophy. It was total folly trying to play zone defense with that group. But that is what Venables does... so that's what they did.
Last year's OU team could have won nine games if they could have closed out games. WVU, Texas Tech and Florida State losses were basically carbon copies of each other. Losses on the last play. Baylor and K-State were tight competitive games where Baylor and K-State took control late in the fourth quarter. There was no shoulda, coulda, wouldas for TCU and Texas losses.
1) Multiple fourth quarter melt downs. Particularly on defense. Offense participated as well.
2) No back up QB. 49-0 to Texas and thumping by TCU might have been "respectable losses" with a healthy Dillon Gabriel.
3) With the exception of Eric Gray, nobody on the team that had played a lot the year before made marked improvement.
4) Talent available was overrated compared to their recruiting rankings.
5) OU's defense couldn't adjust to Venables philosophy. It was total folly trying to play zone defense with that group. But that is what Venables does... so that's what they did.
Last year's OU team could have won nine games if they could have closed out games. WVU, Texas Tech and Florida State losses were basically carbon copies of each other. Losses on the last play. Baylor and K-State were tight competitive games where Baylor and K-State took control late in the fourth quarter. There was no shoulda, coulda, wouldas for TCU and Texas losses.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:17 pm to MillerLiteTime
You could probably do some research but a DC was hired to be a HC. Didn't work out well.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:25 pm to Gunga Din
quote:
5) OU's defense couldn't adjust to Venables philosophy. It was total folly trying to play zone defense with that group. But that is what Venables does... so that's what they did.
I don't follow OU closely but my assumption is that Venables is trying to replicate what they did at Clemson, and Riley did not leave him the players, particularly on defense, to accomplish that. Whether he can do it remains to be seen.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:28 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
A blue blood hired a guy that had never been a head coach before.
Shout out UGA
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:32 pm to MillerLiteTime
quote:I'll give OU some grace.
but we are talking about the complete collapse of the 21st century’s most consistent team. I get that Caleb Williams and several others transferred
Suddenly losing your head coach that consistently won 11 games every season, which resulted in said coach subsequently taking their future heisman QB with him, is pretty tough to rebound from in a matter of months.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:35 pm to Gunga Din
quote:
As an OU fan here is what happened... (besides what the OP already mentioned).
1) Multiple fourth quarter melt downs. Particularly on defense. Offense participated as well.
2) No back up QB. 49-0 to Texas and thumping by TCU might have been "respectable losses" with a healthy Dillon Gabriel.
3) With the exception of Eric Gray, nobody on the team that had played a lot the year before made marked improvement.
4) Talent available was overrated compared to their recruiting rankings.
5) OU's defense couldn't adjust to Venables philosophy. It was total folly trying to play zone defense with that group. But that is what Venables does... so that's what they did.
Last year's OU team could have won nine games if they could have closed out games. WVU, Texas Tech and Florida State losses were basically carbon copies of each other. Losses on the last play. Baylor and K-State were tight competitive games where Baylor and K-State took control late in the fourth quarter. There was no shoulda, coulda, wouldas for TCU and Texas losses.
Solid intel, Sooner. Kirby Smart lost to Vanderbilt and set the all-time Vegas record for biggest blown cover when Georgia barely beat Nichols State in his first year as a 48 point favorite.
Saban lost to whoever the frick that was in his first year.
Urban Meyer started crying during a press conference in his first year.
I have always said that Year 2 is the year. Year 2 is when you've kicked all of the turds out of the program and your message is still fresh and players are most likely to play hard for you.
Any SEC coach in the last 20 years who's ever been worth a damn started kicking arse in year 2.
If Oklahoma doesn't win at least 9 games this season, then I'd be worried.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:52 pm to MillerLiteTime
No one here wants the truth its easier to take a unique situation and blame Brent. BV had good luck vs SEC teams while at Clemson so he knows what OU needs to compete.
What happened goes back to when Bob was HC. He retired suddenly and handed a title team to Lincoln Riley, who immediately threw it away vs Georgia in 2 OT.
LR went on to decline the program every year he was in charge. Worse and worse. He feasted on walk on qbs and great O recruits but neglected the defense. In his last year he was so bad he missed the B12 title game. He easily could have lost 6 games that year. He ran the program down
Then he left 12 hours after losing his last game (this is why he didn’t try to win he needed to get to Usc fast for recruiting cycle). When he left he took his only qb recruit ever (that he recruited from HS) and a bunch of other recruits with him. Spencer Rattler didn’t want to start over with new coaches so left to a coach he already knew at SC.
So what you had was a bare team which had not been good defensively for some years and now raped of both existing and incoming O commits plus lost both 5* qbs and had no viable backups.
BV had to hit the road as soon as he took over to salvage what he could of that class. Had to hire almost all new coaches. Had to create a new culture/program.
So, mix all that up and you end up with 6-7. But if one looks under the hood 6-7 could have easily been 10-3. Yes, 6-7 is exactly what they were but its not a team closer to 2-11 it was a team closer to 10-3 losing 4 games by a FG.
BV had a top 5 23 class and so far the 24 class is trending great. BV classes will always come in later than other schools he asks recruits to take all the visits they want and only commit when they are 100% sure its OU. This will mean later commits but less decommits and more “bought in” commits.
Another note about last year. We had 1 qb and no bench qbs. That restricted playcalling to not get qb hurt and limited RPO. As it was qb missed 2 games and we used wildcat for whole game vs tx. So 2 of the 7 losses were built in via no qb. And even with limitations Lebby had OU scoring avg over 30 per game which I think was top 10 or 15. This year qb DG is in a more stable situation and we have a 5*+ qb backing him up so playbook will be wide open. We have some freshman 5* D players to add along with a great portal class. The turnover of roster has been massive. Out with Grinch players for the most part and in with BV players. Old players did not match new schemes either. Schemes are everything, and having right players to fit them.
You will see a new OU this year playing improved defense again. Will still take another year to to gel but will be much better than last year. If one looks at BV @ Clemson, he got them from bad to top 10 D within 3 years and held it entire time.
But all that fans look at is 6-7 (and thats fine since they don’t know better) they will be shocked this year at improvement. I won’t. I enjoy the building/improving teams its fun to see the brick by brick jump. I am stoked to get some defense back.
We will not be SEC ready this year but will be in 24 to at least compete.
What happened goes back to when Bob was HC. He retired suddenly and handed a title team to Lincoln Riley, who immediately threw it away vs Georgia in 2 OT.
LR went on to decline the program every year he was in charge. Worse and worse. He feasted on walk on qbs and great O recruits but neglected the defense. In his last year he was so bad he missed the B12 title game. He easily could have lost 6 games that year. He ran the program down
Then he left 12 hours after losing his last game (this is why he didn’t try to win he needed to get to Usc fast for recruiting cycle). When he left he took his only qb recruit ever (that he recruited from HS) and a bunch of other recruits with him. Spencer Rattler didn’t want to start over with new coaches so left to a coach he already knew at SC.
So what you had was a bare team which had not been good defensively for some years and now raped of both existing and incoming O commits plus lost both 5* qbs and had no viable backups.
BV had to hit the road as soon as he took over to salvage what he could of that class. Had to hire almost all new coaches. Had to create a new culture/program.
So, mix all that up and you end up with 6-7. But if one looks under the hood 6-7 could have easily been 10-3. Yes, 6-7 is exactly what they were but its not a team closer to 2-11 it was a team closer to 10-3 losing 4 games by a FG.
BV had a top 5 23 class and so far the 24 class is trending great. BV classes will always come in later than other schools he asks recruits to take all the visits they want and only commit when they are 100% sure its OU. This will mean later commits but less decommits and more “bought in” commits.
Another note about last year. We had 1 qb and no bench qbs. That restricted playcalling to not get qb hurt and limited RPO. As it was qb missed 2 games and we used wildcat for whole game vs tx. So 2 of the 7 losses were built in via no qb. And even with limitations Lebby had OU scoring avg over 30 per game which I think was top 10 or 15. This year qb DG is in a more stable situation and we have a 5*+ qb backing him up so playbook will be wide open. We have some freshman 5* D players to add along with a great portal class. The turnover of roster has been massive. Out with Grinch players for the most part and in with BV players. Old players did not match new schemes either. Schemes are everything, and having right players to fit them.
You will see a new OU this year playing improved defense again. Will still take another year to to gel but will be much better than last year. If one looks at BV @ Clemson, he got them from bad to top 10 D within 3 years and held it entire time.
But all that fans look at is 6-7 (and thats fine since they don’t know better) they will be shocked this year at improvement. I won’t. I enjoy the building/improving teams its fun to see the brick by brick jump. I am stoked to get some defense back.
We will not be SEC ready this year but will be in 24 to at least compete.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:07 pm to Gunga Din
quote:
With the exception of Eric Gray,
I miss him he was a good running back
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:10 pm to Matts El Rancho
quote:
I'll give OU some grace. Suddenly losing your head coach that consistently won 11 games every season, which resulted in said coach subsequently taking their future heisman QB with him, is pretty tough to rebound from in a matter of months.
Injuries happen all the time and they don’t make an 11 win team into a losing season. And in this case OU had all offseason to prepare rather than unexpectedly losing Williams.
Was this in any way a situation where Riley knew the team had no real talent outside of Williams and ran like Urban Meyer did Florida?
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:16 pm to OU Guy
quote:
LR went on to decline the program every year he was in charge. Worse and worse. He feasted on walk on qbs and great O recruits but neglected the defense. In his last year he was so bad he missed the B12 title game. He easily could have lost 6 games that year. He ran the program down
Couldn't have said this any better.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:19 pm to OU Guy
Thank you. Thats a solid explanation. Everyone blamed Spencer Rattler for Riley’s ladt season decline but perhaps the program as a whole was already declining quickly.
This post was edited on 7/9/23 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:41 pm to MillerLiteTime
quote:
Thank you. Thats a solid explanation. Everyone blamed Spencer Rattler for Riley’s ladt season decline but perhaps the program as a whole was already declining quickly.
I think the SR situation was unique. LR is known as an O guru, but a person can’t discount he was blessed with 3 experienced transfer qbs. Did he make them or did they make him?
CW is an arse but he is a very talented qb. He saved OU from many losses that last year. His historic comeback vs Tx cemented his starting. And CW is why USC improved so much last year. He was game ready from day 1 of college. CW would make any coach look great.
One could look at Spencer and say LR did not develop him well. So LR is 50% in developing qbs he got from HS, and I would argue again that CW came ready to play from HS and needed much less teaching than most (which is why he’s an arse, he is so good he doesn’t take criticism or coaching well).
I think Spencer has proven to be pretty good with proper coaching which tells me he didn’t get it from LR. If one looks at the play calls prior to benching it was worrisome how many looked like play design failures. Most long developing plays had no short outlet which means forcing ball down field. Things like that.
I root for Spencer now as I think LR abandoned him. And last half of that season, I think LR had his eyes on USC behind the scenes. Many fans claim it didn’t appear LR was trying to win based on playcalling. Once he left they say it then made sense. All I know is I’m glad he is gone. Win or lose at least BV will give 110% to OU.
This post was edited on 7/9/23 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:56 pm to MillerLiteTime
Lincoln Riley went to USC & took key talent with him.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 9:19 pm to Riggle
quote:
A blue blood hired a guy that had never been a head coach before.
quote:
Shout out UGA
Georgia isn’t a blue blood 
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