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re: Louisiana Highschool State Championship game early celebration penalty.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 4:11 am to BamaBravesPackers
Posted on 12/15/25 at 4:11 am to BamaBravesPackers
quote:
BamaBravesPackers
Come on dude
1
Posted on 12/15/25 at 4:44 am to GooseSix
Someone made a Max Preps account for him and his bio says “I throw my helmet in important games”. Dang.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 5:10 am to BamaBravesPackers
The timeout was returned because the penalty occurred with under 2 minutes left in the game and the offended team then has the option to start the clock on the snap which they would have chosen instead. That option overrides any issues as to when the timeout was called. You can hear his explanation just before the one minute mark in the video.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 7:09 am to GooseSix
“IT IS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!”
Were we watching soccer?
Were we watching soccer?
Posted on 12/15/25 at 7:10 am to WestSideTiger
Grok question: “ In Louisiana high school football rules, if a penalty occurs after a play is over and after a timeout is called with under 2 minutes, should the timeout be nullified and given back to the team”
Grok answer:
No, under Louisiana high school football rules (governed by the LHSAA, which adopts NFHS rules with no relevant exceptions found for this scenario), a timeout called after a play ends is not nullified or given back if a dead-ball penalty (such as unsportsmanlike conduct) occurs afterward, even under 2 minutes.
Key Reasoning from NFHS Rules:
• A charged team timeout occurs when the ball is dead and the request is granted (NFHS Rule 3-3-2).
• Once granted, the timeout is charged to the team.
• Dead-ball fouls (e.g., unsportsmanlike conduct, common after plays) are enforced from the succeeding spot (NFHS Rule 10-2), but there is no provision to refund or nullify a previously charged timeout.
• No specific rule (including in Rule 3-3 or 3-4 on timeouts and timing) addresses reversing a charged timeout due to a subsequent dead-ball foul.
• Under 2 minutes, special clock rules apply (e.g., clock stops on first downs, out of bounds, incompletes; options for clock on snap after fouls via Rule 3-4-7), but these do not affect charged timeouts.
Real-World Example:
In the 2025 LHSAA Division II Select championship (St. Charles Catholic vs. Archbishop Shaw), a dead-ball unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (early celebration/helmet removal) stopped the clock late in the game, allowing additional plays. No reports indicate any timeout was involved or refunded, consistent with standard enforcement.
If the timeout was called before the play and a foul extended the period (untimed down), different rules apply—but your scenario specifies the penalty after the play and after the timeout call. The timeout remains charged.
Apparently even Grok knows the timeout shouldn’t have been refunded although it was. This isn’t that hard to understand. If the timeout was called prior to the penalty, the refs either misinterpreted the rules or made one up. Either way, the timeout should not have been returned unless it was called after the penalty.
Grok answer:
No, under Louisiana high school football rules (governed by the LHSAA, which adopts NFHS rules with no relevant exceptions found for this scenario), a timeout called after a play ends is not nullified or given back if a dead-ball penalty (such as unsportsmanlike conduct) occurs afterward, even under 2 minutes.
Key Reasoning from NFHS Rules:
• A charged team timeout occurs when the ball is dead and the request is granted (NFHS Rule 3-3-2).
• Once granted, the timeout is charged to the team.
• Dead-ball fouls (e.g., unsportsmanlike conduct, common after plays) are enforced from the succeeding spot (NFHS Rule 10-2), but there is no provision to refund or nullify a previously charged timeout.
• No specific rule (including in Rule 3-3 or 3-4 on timeouts and timing) addresses reversing a charged timeout due to a subsequent dead-ball foul.
• Under 2 minutes, special clock rules apply (e.g., clock stops on first downs, out of bounds, incompletes; options for clock on snap after fouls via Rule 3-4-7), but these do not affect charged timeouts.
Real-World Example:
In the 2025 LHSAA Division II Select championship (St. Charles Catholic vs. Archbishop Shaw), a dead-ball unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (early celebration/helmet removal) stopped the clock late in the game, allowing additional plays. No reports indicate any timeout was involved or refunded, consistent with standard enforcement.
If the timeout was called before the play and a foul extended the period (untimed down), different rules apply—but your scenario specifies the penalty after the play and after the timeout call. The timeout remains charged.
Apparently even Grok knows the timeout shouldn’t have been refunded although it was. This isn’t that hard to understand. If the timeout was called prior to the penalty, the refs either misinterpreted the rules or made one up. Either way, the timeout should not have been returned unless it was called after the penalty.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 7:14 am to theballguy
quote:
Come on dude
Sorry I’ve hurt your feelings too.
You may not like the rules either, but that doesn’t change that rules should be known and followed by refs. His explanation didn’t make sense unless the timeout occurred after the penalty, which no one has shown evidence of when it was called (and most coaches when stopping the clock call it immediately, not 2-3 seconds later).
Posted on 12/15/25 at 7:23 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Let’s make this simple for you. Which of these did you see on the video? 1 - A flag for unsportsmanlike conduct? 2 - A referee signaling that St Charles had called a timeout? One happened. The other did not. It is that simple. As much as you complain about the refs you should become an LSU fan.
Then why is there a video of the ref giving the timeout back?
This just isn’t that hard to understand Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:04 am to GooseSix
I hate it for the Shaw kid but it gave St Charles kicker a chance at redemption.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:08 am to GooseSix
100% deserved
That will haunt him the rest of his life, and honestly it should. What a moron. Kid or not, that was beyond stupid
That will haunt him the rest of his life, and honestly it should. What a moron. Kid or not, that was beyond stupid
Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:11 am to BamaBravesPackers
This is what Grok said when I asked.
According to NFHS Football Rules, specifically under Rule 10-1 (Procedure After a Foul), decisions involving penalties must be made before any charged timeout is granted to either team. This applies to both live-ball and dead-ball fouls.
For a dead-ball personal foul (such as unsportsmanlike conduct), the covering official signals the foul immediately after it occurs between downs. The referee then notifies both teams and presents options to the offended team’s designated representative (typically the head coach or captain) for accepting or declining the penalty, including its effects on down, distance, and (if applicable under Rule 3-4-7) clock starting options with less than two minutes remaining in the half.
Only after the penalty decision is resolved can a charged timeout be granted. Therefore, if the offended team attempts to call a timeout “before the penalty” (i.e., before officials have signaled, announced, or enforced it), the timeout request is not acknowledged or charged until the foul is handled. The team does not lose the Rule 3-4-7 timing option, as it is part of the penalty acceptance choice presented during this process.
If the offended team accepts the penalty under two minutes, they retain the option to start the clock on the snap. If they decline, the clock starts on the ready-for-play signal as usual, and no special timing option applies.
According to NFHS Football Rules, specifically under Rule 10-1 (Procedure After a Foul), decisions involving penalties must be made before any charged timeout is granted to either team. This applies to both live-ball and dead-ball fouls.
For a dead-ball personal foul (such as unsportsmanlike conduct), the covering official signals the foul immediately after it occurs between downs. The referee then notifies both teams and presents options to the offended team’s designated representative (typically the head coach or captain) for accepting or declining the penalty, including its effects on down, distance, and (if applicable under Rule 3-4-7) clock starting options with less than two minutes remaining in the half.
Only after the penalty decision is resolved can a charged timeout be granted. Therefore, if the offended team attempts to call a timeout “before the penalty” (i.e., before officials have signaled, announced, or enforced it), the timeout request is not acknowledged or charged until the foul is handled. The team does not lose the Rule 3-4-7 timing option, as it is part of the penalty acceptance choice presented during this process.
If the offended team accepts the penalty under two minutes, they retain the option to start the clock on the snap. If they decline, the clock starts on the ready-for-play signal as usual, and no special timing option applies.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:26 am to Henry Jones Jr
Hate it for that kid. He was caught up in the moment.
But as a coach, you start early teaching kids to win or lose with class.
Gotta be all business until the last whistle.
But as a coach, you start early teaching kids to win or lose with class.
Gotta be all business until the last whistle.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:27 am to WestSideTiger
quote:
Therefore, if the offended team attempts to call a timeout “before the penalty” (i.e., before officials have signaled, announced, or enforced it), the timeout request is not acknowledged or charged until the foul is handled.
And before you say they would still have to grant the timeout even after the penalty is resolved then explain this.
The timing option allows them to either run the clock or start it on the snap. If you are forcing that team to use the timeout then you take away one of their options as the offended team. If they want the clock to immediately start running (which they didn’t in this case) then the timeout would immediately kill it removing that as an option.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:48 am to GooseSix
Damn what a job by the holder. That was an awful snap.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 9:22 am to reggierayreb
I think the punter just shanked it. no indication from the ref of a block. don't they usually make a gesture to indicate a block or partial block?
Posted on 12/15/25 at 9:34 am to Jmcc64
quote:
I think the punter just shanked it. no indication from the ref of a block. don't they usually make a gesture to indicate a block or partial block?
Didn't look blocked to me either, I think it just went off the side of his foot.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 9:38 am to GooseSix
Was time going to expire after that kneel down? If so this is interesting. Because I have seen coaches and half the sidelines head onto the field for handshake time as last few seconds tick away before.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 9:54 am to BamaBravesPackers
He did not give it back because it was never accepted. His official timeout due to the dead ball unsportsmanlike conduct negated it. The penalty occurred under two minutes so it made the St Charles timeout a moot point.
What is entertaining is you are focused on the (correct) call by the official rather than;
1 - A player committed an unsportsmanlike penalty which stopped play (and also resulted in a fifteen yard penalty).
2 - The Shaw coach THREE times call for a kneel down by a shotgun formation (giving up nearly seven yards per play - 21 additional yards).
3 - A partial block of the punt - clearly a special teams breakdown.
4 - St Charles kicking a 45 yard field goal to win.
There were plenty of opportunities to put the game away. Shaw did not get the job done. That is not the fault of a referee who made the correct call.
What is entertaining is you are focused on the (correct) call by the official rather than;
1 - A player committed an unsportsmanlike penalty which stopped play (and also resulted in a fifteen yard penalty).
2 - The Shaw coach THREE times call for a kneel down by a shotgun formation (giving up nearly seven yards per play - 21 additional yards).
3 - A partial block of the punt - clearly a special teams breakdown.
4 - St Charles kicking a 45 yard field goal to win.
There were plenty of opportunities to put the game away. Shaw did not get the job done. That is not the fault of a referee who made the correct call.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 9:56 am to BamaBravesPackers
quote:The request was not granted.
• A charged team timeout occurs when the ball is dead and the request is granted (NFHS Rule 3-3-2).
Posted on 12/15/25 at 11:20 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Have to give him credit. He stuck with that take until the bitter end.
My point was that Shaw had to knee multiple times to end the game with the time remaining. The center thought the game was over after the first kneel and began to celebrate which led to the penalty and time stoppage.
Posted on 12/15/25 at 11:21 am to elposter
quote:
Was time going to expire after that kneel down? If so this is interesting. Because I have seen coaches and half the sidelines head onto the field for handshake time as last few seconds tick away before.
No, the trailing team had a couple timeouts remaining.
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