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Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:24 am to RT1941
quote:
Is recruiting more competitive now with those programs now than they were with Urban/Les/Mark on the trail back then? Of course we have to add Dabo's elite recruiting to the mix as well now, but LSU/UGA/UF have always challenged Saban for elite players.
I agree, but there is a difference between consistent Top 10 classes and consistent Top 3 and #1 classes.
Nick Saban won’t be getting the #1 class in the country every year.
Might not be getting the Top 3 class in the country every year.
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:25 am to i am dan
If it's only about recruiting then why isn't Georgia in the title game every year? How about Ohio State? These programs trip up to inferior teams with all that talent. Bama hasn't lost to an unranked team in over a decade.
Nick is the best at motivation and preparation. Not too bad at X's and O's either...but maybe you're right. Maybe Nick is just good because he's at the most powerful college football program of all time. I mean he sure as hell didn't match this success at lower tier schools in his previous stops.
Nick is the best at motivation and preparation. Not too bad at X's and O's either...but maybe you're right. Maybe Nick is just good because he's at the most powerful college football program of all time. I mean he sure as hell didn't match this success at lower tier schools in his previous stops.
This post was edited on 11/1/19 at 11:27 am
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:27 am to Legion RTR
Again, I think this whole argument comes down to whether people consider development of players as coaching or not.
If you do, it's very hard to argue that Saban is not a great coach. The stats and track record prove that he develops 4/5 star kids at an insanely higher and more consistent level than any other program in the country. It isn't even debatable.
If you don't think development is a part of "coaching", then it's kind of just an argument against air. Sure, you can use Michigan State as some sort of measuring stick, but Saban wasn't as good a coach at Michigan State or LSU as he is at Alabama. He's gotten better. I'm 99% sure he'd do a better job at Michigan State right now than he did in the mid 1990s, and I'm 100% sure he'd be more consistent at LSU right now than he was in the 2000s.
Hell, he didn't even develop his entire program ethos (The Process) until late in his tenure at Michigan State.
If you do, it's very hard to argue that Saban is not a great coach. The stats and track record prove that he develops 4/5 star kids at an insanely higher and more consistent level than any other program in the country. It isn't even debatable.
If you don't think development is a part of "coaching", then it's kind of just an argument against air. Sure, you can use Michigan State as some sort of measuring stick, but Saban wasn't as good a coach at Michigan State or LSU as he is at Alabama. He's gotten better. I'm 99% sure he'd do a better job at Michigan State right now than he did in the mid 1990s, and I'm 100% sure he'd be more consistent at LSU right now than he was in the 2000s.
Hell, he didn't even develop his entire program ethos (The Process) until late in his tenure at Michigan State.
This post was edited on 11/1/19 at 11:33 am
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:27 am to Rohan Gravy
quote:
He didn’t win any National Championships at Michigan State.
You are right, but he improved the program
quote:
He didn’t win any SuperBowls in Miami. And he quit, because he knew he was over his head.
He improved the program and wanted Drew Brees as his QB. The GM said "no". Coach Saban was far from being in over his head, and if he had stayed Miami would be challenging New England.
quote:
I do believe he is just an above average coach without superior talent.
You do not know football if you think that. Several LSU football players disagree with you as well.
quote:
But things just got a bit more competitive in recruiting with LSU, Georgia, and Florida
Throughout Coach Saban's time at Alabama there have been other SEC schools that were competitive recruiting with Alabama.
This post was edited on 11/1/19 at 11:34 am
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:28 am to i am dan
I'm one of the biggest homers on here, and hate that Saban left LSU. WTS, when he's called the GOAT, it is 100% correct. He eats, sleeps, and lives football. His attention to detail is like no other, and his demand for excellence in his players is what makes them so good. Of course he has many of the best players in the country to work with, but he also coaches to get the absolute most out of them.
The OP statement is absurd.
Also, Fk Bama and fk the GOAT Saban.
The OP statement is absurd.
Also, Fk Bama and fk the GOAT Saban.
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:28 am to i am dan
quote:He is the best recruiter.
I know it is. That's not what the thread is about. We all know he is a great recruiter. Probably why he has so many 4* and 5* players.. duh.
He is also a great developer of the talent he brings in, as evidenced by the # of players he's steadily funneled into the pro's.
He is OCD with the details (just like Gus), He is not so stubborn and ridged to think that HIS way is the best way, or that his schemes will always work as long as the players execute. He has evolved that team on both sides of the ball over time and he is willing to accept the advice and suggestions of others.
He recognizes he is not the smartest man in the profession, so the hires men from the NFL and former college HC's to come in and bring their expertise to the program to make it better. He has some of the NFL's best HC and Asst's come to Alabama campus to speak with his players, he has some of the best professional athletes in the country come to mentor them and talk about their lives.
The mental aspect of and athlete is just as important as the physical. Dr. Kevin Elko is a team member and he is just as regular in the halls as anyone else. He teaches the staff and the players to be mentally strong, keep the main thing the main thing, DO YOUR JOB.
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:29 am to RT1941
For OP. Who is a great coach?
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:30 am to RT1941
Yea - again - the other aspects of the atmosphere and program Saban has in place that take raw talent and turn them into consistent, disciplined machines is constantly overlooked in these sorts of discussions. As is Saban's willingness to adapt and change and tweak.
On field coach GOAT? I dunno, probably not.
College Football Program CEO/Managing Director GOAT? There isn't even a close 2nd. And recruiting is only a part of that.
On field coach GOAT? I dunno, probably not.
College Football Program CEO/Managing Director GOAT? There isn't even a close 2nd. And recruiting is only a part of that.
This post was edited on 11/1/19 at 11:34 am
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:31 am to Rohan Gravy
quote:
He didn’t win any National Championships at Michigan State.
He didn’t win any SuperBowls in Miami.
Are you really trying to use this as arguments?
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:32 am to rockiee
Yes
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:34 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
and I'm 100% sure he'd be more consistent at LSU right now than he was in the 2000s.
That's because LSU is considered a borderline elite program overall now. That wasn't the case when he got there...who do you think transformed LSU into what they are today? Nick Saban.
This post was edited on 11/1/19 at 11:35 am
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:37 am to i am dan
quote:
If you gave Atm's defense to Saban this year, would he improve it and if so, by how much?
See, this isn't even close to what makes Saban good. He is a good Xs and Os guy, but his process is what makes it great.
He comes up with a scheme and outlines the perfect player to execute that scheme (height, weight, reach, speed, explosiveness, etc.). He then recruits and trains individuals to hit that mold. So, just taking someone elses athletes, even if they are really good, doesn't mean he would be successful. It depends on how well they fit his ideal player at each position.
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:37 am to rockiee
quote:
He didn’t win any National Championships at Michigan State.
He didn’t win any SuperBowls in Miami.
Those are foolish arguments. Coach Saban improved both programs, Michigan State got better (beating some #1 teams) and Coach Saban was not at Miami long enough (but did as good as Pete Carroll did in his first few years in Seattle). If Miami takes Brees like Coach Saban wanted then they may have SB wins as well
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:38 am to Rohan Gravy
quote:
Yes
Ok, prayers sent
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:38 am to TideFaninFl
Also, dan, this was a good thread. It's not trolling or flaming and it's just asking a question and stoking a discussion.
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:38 am to i am dan
Is Auburn just a below average school and fanbase pulled down by people like you?
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:42 am to StopRobot
quote:OP was trying to have a serious conversation, he wasn't in to getting defensive or pissy.
For OP. Who is a great coach?
OP has no fricking idea what a consistently great college coach is made up of because he's had to settle with one of the most stubborn HC's in this conference for the last 7 yrs with Gus.
He has watched Gus bring in talented players, and average top 10 ranks for the best recruiting AU has ever experienced. But he's also had to watch Gus consistently exhibit piss poor roster management, stick with scheme that is no longer effective, refuse to tailor his offensive scheme to his personnel, and every single season make some of the most bone headed play calls in existence.
He's actively watching Gus piss away on of the best defenses in the country right now.
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:43 am to i am dan
quote:
Is Saban a just above average coach propped by the best players in CFB?
Well, he also won bigly at LSU, so there's that. National titles at 2 different D-1 schools, and there's only 2 that have done that...Saban and Meyer. Very exclusive list.
Posted on 11/1/19 at 11:44 am to i am dan
Recruiting is part of being a head coach . His ability to recruit is what makes him so good . If everyone in the SEC had even talent then Saban and Smart wouldn’t be near as good as they are now.
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