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re: HUNH Rule change

Posted on 2/17/14 at 3:54 pm to
Posted by tkane311
Mo-billionaire
Member since Oct 2009
2336 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 3:54 pm to
First let me say, before degloving your argument, that I find it amusing that you arrogant gumps keep popping up with your arguments about how "clearly" this and "obviously" that to support your argument...an argument that ACTUALLY is clearly bullshite to everyone in the sports world, with the lone exceptions to Bama, Arky, Troy Calhoun and Saban fan-girl Todd Berry.

quote:

The HUNH offense, as ran today, is premised on abusing football's substitution rule.


Yet Auburn substituted at will against HUNH teams...so what's your problem again? Oh..Bama doesn't WANT to substitute more often than normal. He wants his guys to be huge and strong and as a result, need more rest between plays. It doesn't undermine the ability to sub...it makes it necessary to sub more often PARTICULARLY for the larger defensive players. Safety? Um...no

quote:

The reason the offensive players hurry to the LOS after the last play is NOT to snap the ball within a few seconds of getting there. Rogers Redding, Coordinator of NCAA officials, says that the average point in time when the ball is snapped under HUNH offenses is at the 17-second mark of the 40-second time allowance. HUNH offenses almost never snap the ball within 10 seconds of the last play.


Perhaps...but if you are trying to run pace...and you have to stop and double check that you aren't going to get a delay of game penalty (for going too fast), it disrupts your rhythm and essentially gives the defense a countdown as to when you are going to snap the football.

quote:

There is plenty of time for the defense to substitute before the ball is typically snapped but with HUNH offenses purposely getting to the LOS quickly to create the threat of the substitution penalty, the defense is put at a tremendous disadvantage, especially when you consider that defensive play requires far more physical exertion than offensive play.


Perhaps...and when they do so, they prevent themselves from being substituted. Which ends up making it a "who's better conditioned" scenario, instead of a "who is bigger a stronger ala Mount Cody" scenario. I can see why that is inconvenient.

quote:

All the proposed rule does is guarantee the defense a small window of opportunity (10 seconds after the clock is started following the end of the last play) to substitute without the substitution penalty being used against them.


They have this opportunity after EVERY FIRST DOWN...they actually have this opportunity between each play but I don't expect everyone to be able to pull it off like Auburn did...Gary Danielson described Auburn's defensive substituting agains TAMU as Auburn "putting on a clinic", but I certainly would expect teams to be able to substitute after first downs.

quote:

It has no effect on the pace of the game. None. That is a ruse being used by HUNH proponents


I don't think it has much affect...but I heard earlier that Auburn would have been penalized twice against FSU but 8 times against Mizzou. So yea...it has an affect.


quote:

If the rule is not passed, I hope defensive coaches will start planning a designated injury after every play in order to force their hand on this issue. If it's acceptable to use the rule book to prevent substitutions, then it should be acceptable to use it for purposes of making substitutions.


Well, that's just like you guys. This is ACTUAL cheating. Faking an injury to slow down a defense so you can do on your own terms what you could have done regardless...substitute. It's also just like you assholes to put HUNH on par with faking injuries. I can assure you, no one but you gumps believe that. One is cheating, the other is not. The only reason there isn't a rule against faking injuries is that you never really know if it's fake or not and the officials don't want to be the assholes that flag a player for faking an injury, then he turns out to have a broken ankle.

In the same way that the game evolved to require larger, stronger players, and Bama stayed ahead of the curve, the game is evolving again...toward leaner, more highly conditioned players.

After this is voted down, the big take away here is that Saban and Fats Longshanks are sore losers, who apparently aren't bright enough to solve the defensive problems that face them on the field...so they tried to back door a rule under false pretenses. That's what people will remember. You are all huge pussies, and now everyone knows it.


This post was edited on 2/17/14 at 3:59 pm
Posted by rocksteady
Member since Sep 2013
1805 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 3:55 pm to
Obviously all the arguments most bama fans are making is ridiculous, because if what you're spewing out was THE CASE then they would be approaching this rule change in that manner. Right? Can you agree? So, therefore, the fact they are approaching it under player safety, HAS TO, HAS TO lead you to conclude that all your arguments that make so much sense in your little heads, are complete garbage.

With that said, most, even bama fans agree that it is NOT a safety issue. So why even keep trying to argue anything else about it. If the experts(coaches) that get paid millions couldn't formulate a better medium as to approach this rule change other than "player safety" - then everything you are trying to argue/defend as to "offensive advantage" is clearly wrong and you should just stop..... but we all know that isn't going to happen. Cause now you're just in full denial/defense (no pun intended) mode.
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34685 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 3:56 pm to
quote:

the whole point of football is for the offense to try and come up with a play to defeat the play that the defense is running.


Exactly. How is pace any different of an advantage than the play calling or athletic advantage?

The answer is because you like a type of football, and your team benefits from a type of football that emphasizes talent.

Well too bad, parity exists for the most part (compared to previous decades) in the NFL and everyone loves it outside of fans of old dynasties so if HUNH will spread that parity to college football the public will love that too.
Posted by NYCAuburn
TD Platinum Membership/SECr Sheriff
Member since Feb 2011
57004 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

Exactly


Yet he still doesnt see it
Posted by Crimson Legend
Mount St Gumpus
Member since Nov 2004
15478 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 3:59 pm to
This is what happens when someone tries to answer rationally on the rant.

I gave my opinion. It has no bearing on Nick Saban's, or anyone here. I don't defend anyone else's view, and my view doesn't validate or invalidate anyone else's.

Forgive me if my response still makes sense in my "little head", despite your most eloquent and articulate rebuttal.
Posted by spacewrangler
In my easy chair with my boots on..
Member since Sep 2009
9815 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:16 pm to
Would you agree that there are discrepancies in the time it takes one crew vs another crew to get the chains moved, ball set, refs in position and ready to play?

It seems like this rule will standardize that timeframe and give the refs a specific set timeframe that they have to work with. also coaches will know exactly how much time they have in between plays to sub, make calls and etc. Plus, you will not have coaches going apeshit at the refs telling them to hurry up to set the ball in play. This will help the refs make sure they have the ball spotted correctly, the chains in the correct spot and etc.

After thinking about this I can't believe there are not already measures in place that have standardized the time frame for refs to spot the ball ready to play. Is 10 seconds too much or not enough or just the right amount of time it should take the ref ?



Posted by DaBama
Helena, AL
Member since Oct 2011
1675 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

Do Bama fans really, deep in their hear of hearts agree with saban on this?


I've never liked the idea of relying on snapping the ball before the defense can adjust in order to gain an advantage. That said, I would rather Saban not have gone before the committee because it's a lose/lose situation. If the rule passes, everyone will roll their eyes when Bama beats a team that used to run the HUNH. If it doesn't pass, Saban will be viewed as a hypocrite if he ever runs it.

quote:

Do any of them think he is just whinning because his defenses have had trouble stopping it?


I believe it pisses him off that people are winning by using a scheme that probably shouldn't have been allowed in the first place.

quote:

If he had shut down JFF and Au burn, would he really be petitioning for a rule change?


Probably. Let's not forget that he was bitching about the HUNH even after he beat Auburn 42-14 two years ago. Also, let's not forget that he beat A&M this year and if he had a kicker that was worth a shite, he would have beaten Auburn too. It's not like he couldn't figure out a way to beat these teams even with them running their gimmick offenses.

quote:

He is coming off as a crying little bitch in this case, right?


Sounds like you need reassurance.
Posted by Gradual_Stroke
Bee Cave, TX
Member since Oct 2012
20917 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:26 pm to
Unbelievable.
Posted by DaBama
Helena, AL
Member since Oct 2011
1675 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:27 pm to
quote:

Unbelievable.


Thanks!
Posted by rocksteady
Member since Sep 2013
1805 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:46 pm to
Crimson Legend. Haha sorry, I was not responding to your post directly or intentionally. It just so happened to be the point where I read all I needed to and hit reply at the bottom of your post. I re-read said post and its pretty funny that what you said is exactly what I agree with.

My bad bro
Posted by rocksteady
Member since Sep 2013
1805 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:46 pm to
There should be a "reply to all" thing instead of having to reply to a particular person.. and if there is, please direct me.
Posted by arrakis
Member since Nov 2008
21168 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:48 pm to
quote:

Would you agree that there are discrepancies in the time it takes one crew vs another crew to get the chains moved, ball set, refs in position and ready to play?


There are always differences between crews, but not much. Where the ball is dead on the field has more impact than the officials. Mostly, how big is the pile of players at the ball. The dead ball signal goes up when the ball is dead by rule. There might be 4-5 players on top or around the ball so the officials have to mark the progress and wait for the players to get out of the way.

quote:

It seems like this rule will standardize that timeframe and give the refs a specific set timeframe that they have to work with. also coaches will know exactly how much time they have in between plays to sub, make calls and etc.


Within a couple of seconds, they know now. It would be nice, from an officials perspective, to get that extra 2 seconds. We each have a pre-snap checklist to process....sometimes it's tough to get it all in before the snap when you have to manage the unexpected.

quote:

Plus, you will not have coaches going apeshit at the refs telling them to hurry up to set the ball in play. This will help the refs make sure they have the ball spotted correctly, the chains in the correct spot and etc.

Coaches are like 3 year olds....they want what they want when they want it. But, they know they aren't going to get what they want when they want it. Besides, nobody pays much attention to an apeshit coach anyway. The only voice on the sideline that matters is the HC; he knows the routine and picks his spots to make his point.

quote:

After thinking about this I can't believe there are not already measures in place that have standardized the time frame for refs to spot the ball ready to play. Is 10 seconds too much or not enough or just the right amount of time it should take the ref ?



People are just looking for something to bitch about. The proposed rule change is no big deal. Like I posted before, I'm more concerned about the possible change that swaps the side for the sticks at half.

Hope that helps
Posted by makersmark1
earth
Member since Oct 2011
18571 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:53 pm to
I thought under current rules if the offense subs the ref stands over the football to allow defense subs time to come into game.

I think you are ok with no change. I am too.

I like triple option. If you watch AU, you will see some option football and a bunch of power blocking. It is run from a shotgun with 3WR, but if you watch you will see down block, kickout, pull, lead elements throughout Gus's run game. I actually think you will like it if you break it down. Gus uses pace as an element of power running with option mixed in.
Posted by Crimson Legend
Mount St Gumpus
Member since Nov 2004
15478 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 4:53 pm to
quote:

Crimson Legend. Haha sorry, I was not responding to your post directly or intentionally. It just so happened to be the point where I read all I needed to and hit reply at the bottom of your post. I re-read said post and its pretty funny that what you said is exactly what I agree with.

My bad bro



I do the same thing, so I usually realize when someone isn't intentionally responding to me. I missed it this time. No worries.
Posted by rocksteady
Member since Sep 2013
1805 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:00 pm to
after we cheers our beers, you still have a little head because your a bama fan.

gotta keep up the appearance you know
Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
21322 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:05 pm to
quote:

I do not think the rule will pass simply because many HS and colleges have committed to this style of HUNH
it has already passed. It has to go by the review board, but they almost never reject rules except on the basis of player safety or adverse economic impact, neither of which apply
Posted by jtran1988
Corndog U
Member since Oct 2008
5470 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:22 pm to
Dat 4th quarter program doe
Posted by Rabern57
Alabama
Member since Jan 2010
13977 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:35 pm to
quote:

it has already passed. It has to go by the review board, but they almost never reject rules
Rules are not usually backdoor-ed in where no one but the ones for it are allowed to speak on it or know about it. Because this, the NCAA will likely be overwhelmed by the people against it between now and the next vote. With numbers the NCAA probably hasn't ever seen against a rule. Also if Bret lied about the AFCA being for it without it even being discussed at their meeting it would also be something new.

quote:

but they almost never reject rules except on the basis of player safety
Except that there is nothing to suggest that it is a risk to a player's safety other than Saban and Bret saying it is.

quote:

or adverse economic impact
The schools that can't get much talent but win with the HUNH will start losing more games and that will hurt attendance and merchandise sales. Which is adverse. Passing the rule has no positive affect on revenues.
This post was edited on 2/17/14 at 6:12 pm
Posted by finestfirst79
Vicksburg, Mississippi
Member since Nov 2012
11646 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:28 pm to
quote:

He is coming off as a crying little bitch in this case, right?


Yes. And he'll forever be known as one because of this deal, tarnishing what should have been a great reputation.

The other aspect of this that wouldn't have come up if so many Bama fans hadn't started trying to teach us history lessons about "real football" is that the whole substitution thing is NOT how football was played for most of the history of football. See this Wikipedia page. Substitutions of any kind were rare before 1941. I knew that part. What I didn't know is that college football went back to a one-platoon system in 1954. 'Tennessee head coach "General" Robert Neyland praised the change as the end of "chickenshit football".' Heh. It wasn't until the 1965 season that the NCAA allowed unlimited substitutions again.

To the "real football" fans: read, sometime.
Posted by Crimson Legend
Mount St Gumpus
Member since Nov 2004
15478 posts
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:35 pm to
Funny how each fanbase defends their current system like CRAZY. It's like listening to the respective political parties after a state of the union speech. You know what's going to be said before anyone says it.

Alabama fans are suddenly going nuts about player safety (the same ones of us who were livid about the targeting rule this year), and auburn fans - the ones who have said for years that the game is about power running and controlling the line of scrimmage - suddenly think football is about catching the defense off guard.

Chickenshit. There's plenty of chickenshit to go around.

Can we go back to talking about scheduling again?
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