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re: Heisman talk - Fournette, Henry, Cook
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:42 am to LSUTigersVCURams
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:42 am to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:Front 7 is going to be stout, secondary is going to be suspect again.
I'm actually pretty scared of what Arky's D is going to look like next year. No one believes it, but I honestly think they will be division contenders next year if they can get even a serviceable quarterback.
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Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:42 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
I would not even begin to pull QB's into this discussion.
Watson can still win it with a big time performance against UNC
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:43 am to GIbson05
quote:
Except then they'd realize all of Fournette's "incredible" runs were against teams whose seasons are over and laugh.
And name a defense that Henry's amazing runs were against? Took 50 carries, 50 against a lowly Auburn team to get to 270 yards?
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:45 am to TheOcean
quote:
Cook has faced tougher defenses. Fact. Next dumb statement?
Meh, I wouldn't go that far, but they are very comparable. Cook certainly did not rack up yards against crappy run defenses.
YPC Rankings
#121 - Texas State
#28 - South Florida
#1 - Boston College
#59 - Wake Forest
#54 - Miami
#6 - Louisville
#92 - Georgia Tech
#94 - Syracuse
#30 - Clemson
#62 - NC State
#9 - Florida
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:45 am to TheOcean
quote:
Cook is the best player in CFB
not even close.
Let's not forget that last week Cook was bottled-up until the 7:56 mark left in the game in the only game Cook played a top defense. He got 125 of his yards after the game was well over. In fact, 75 of his yards came after the 3:26 mark left in the game after Florida's D quit and had several starters out and the injury prone Cook should have been out of the game but Jimbo wanted to pad his stats for the Heisman run.
Henry faced good defenses most weeks of the season and still was the MVP on his #2 team.
Without Henry, Alabama's Coker carries all the pressure and doesn't turn into the game manager he has become. Alabama is all about Defense and Henry. FSU is a product of their ACC creampuff schedule and didn't even have to play the best D in their own conference.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 8:48 am
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:46 am to Nissanmaxima
quote:
Took 50 carries, 50 against a lowly Auburn team to get to 270 yards?
Only 46 carries and averaged 5.9 ypc.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:46 am to Nissanmaxima
quote:
And name a defense that Henry's amazing runs were against? Took 50 carries, 50 against a lowly Auburn team to get to 270 yards?
Poor perception on your part IMHO.
If you had actually watched the game, you'd have realized that Saban was feeding Henry in the 4th to salt the clock away. It worked, Auburn couldn't stop him, so why change what is working and working well?
You know... sort of like that 10 minute walk-off game-ending drive Bama laid down on LSU. It worked.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:47 am to Nissanmaxima
quote:
And name a defense that Henry's amazing runs were against? Took 50 carries, 50 against a lowly Auburn team to get to 270 yards?
* 147 yards (11.3 ypc) vs Wisconsin (Top 10 run defense)
* 127 yards (5.52 ypc) vs Ole Miss (Top 15 run defense)
* 148 yards (5.69 ypc) vs Georgia (Top 50 run defense)
* 210 yards (5.53 ypc) vs LSU (Top 50 run defense)
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:49 am to Nissanmaxima
quote:
If anyone thinks Fournette is not getting an invite is smoking some serious dope. They will all be invited, period!
Watson will win it. Henry bring 0 flash to the Heisman. If you would show Henry's highlight reel and then show Fournette's, Henry would be an after thought, fact!
You're high as frick, fact!
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:50 am to SummerOfGeorge
We gave Henry the ball 14 straight times against Auburn. They knew exactly who was getting the ball and they still couldn't stop him.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:53 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Except then they'd realize all of Fournette's "incredible" runs were against teams whose seasons are over and laugh.
I follow a lot of what you have said but there is a part of the "What if" analysis that hasn't been covered. It has been said numerous times on the Rant and in the thread that Buga wins hands down if he played for Bama.
Flip that and project what Henry would have had playing for LSU... LF had 31 yds against Bama. I think that is about 50 more than Henry would have had if he was the LSU ball carrier in those same plays.
But your are right, team accomplishments will separate the wheat from the chaf.
FWIW, I think the three game swoon Fournette had got Miles in more trouble than the losses themselves. If LF was still the frontrunner you would not have heard a word about coaching changes. JMHO
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:53 am to SummerOfGeorge
Look, we can keep these pages going and going and going. But don't come here with the bullshite about how Fournette only had the season he had because he did it against shitty teams and defenses. Give the kid credit where credit is due. He broke the single season rushing record that was held since 1977. There have been some pretty decent backs that have came through LSU since that time. Just saying.
Yeah we get it numb nuts. You ever heard a saying that the defense was gased and had no legs left? Why didn't they give him the ball 14 straight times in the first half? Answer that Einstein.
quote:
We gave Henry the ball 14 straight times against Auburn. They knew exactly who was getting the ball and they still couldn't stop him.
Yeah we get it numb nuts. You ever heard a saying that the defense was gased and had no legs left? Why didn't they give him the ball 14 straight times in the first half? Answer that Einstein.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 8:56 am
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:56 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
that Buga wins hands down if he played for Bama.
Except he doesn't. Doesn't matter what if's. On field results matter and that's why Henry is winning it this year and LF7 isn't even going to NYC. The End. Deal with it.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:56 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
Flip that and project what Henry would have had playing for LSU... LF had 31 yds against Bama. I think that is about 50 more than Henry would have had if he was the LSU ball carrier in those same plays.
I'm not even disagreeing with you, but it is what it is. The games and the stats happened. You could make that argument for 100 players around the country. What if Dak was at Ohio State? What if Chad Kelly was at Baylor?
quote:
FWIW, I think the three game swoon Fournette had got Miles in more trouble than the losses themselves. If LF was still the frontrunner you would not have heard a word about coaching changes. JMHO
Well, that sucks, both for Miles and for Fournette.
I think Fournette is awesome. I mean, really awesome. I just don't think he should win the Heisman this year.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:57 am to JamalSanders
quote:
Watson will win it.
Nah. He won't carry enough regions. All the "QB votes" in the southwest region are going to fall for Mayfield. Watson and Cook are going to split some of the ACC votes in the south and Mid-Atlantic.
Watson finishes a strong 2nd, but unless Henry just flops in the SECCG the Heisman is his.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:58 am to Nissanmaxima
quote:
But don't come here with the bull shite about how Fournette only had the season he had because he did it against shitty teams and defenses. Give the kid credit where credit is due. He broke the single season rushing record that was held since 1977. There have been some pretty decent backs that have came through LSU since that time. Just saying.
We aren't arguing about his season from a "good or not" place. We are arguing whether his season should be considered THE BEST SEASON OF ALL PLAYERS IN AMERICA. And personally I think that you should dive into the stats and see who they were against when you are arguing who should win that type of award.
quote:
He broke the single season rushing record that was held since 1977.
So did Derek Henry at Alabama. And Henry is 2 TDs away from breaking the SEC Record for rushing touchdowns.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:58 am to Nissanmaxima
quote:
Yeah we get it numb nuts. You ever heard a saying that the defense was gased and had no legs left? Why didn't they give him the ball 14 straight times in the first half? Answer that Einstein.
Your team's lack of depth is not my problem.***
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:58 am to TheOcean
The race as I see it is down to Henry, Watson, McCaffery, or Mayfield.
1. Henry is in the driver's seat. A strong performance (or even an average performance by his standards) will lock it up for him. However, a poor performance opens the door for:
2. Watson is second in line. QB on the #1 team. Another big day will push him forward and have him ready to take the trophy if Henry falters.
3. McCaffery is a longshot but talk around him has built lately. If Henry and Watson both underperform and he has a big day in a Stanford win, he could move up enough to take the trophy.
4. Mayfield is your longest of longshots, primarily because his team is not playing this weekend. Sucks for him, but it's reality that if you aren't playing you kind of slip to the back of people's thoughts on stuff like this. He'd need the top two for sure, and maybe even McCaffery, to stumble to have a chance.
Nobody else has any chance.
1. Henry is in the driver's seat. A strong performance (or even an average performance by his standards) will lock it up for him. However, a poor performance opens the door for:
2. Watson is second in line. QB on the #1 team. Another big day will push him forward and have him ready to take the trophy if Henry falters.
3. McCaffery is a longshot but talk around him has built lately. If Henry and Watson both underperform and he has a big day in a Stanford win, he could move up enough to take the trophy.
4. Mayfield is your longest of longshots, primarily because his team is not playing this weekend. Sucks for him, but it's reality that if you aren't playing you kind of slip to the back of people's thoughts on stuff like this. He'd need the top two for sure, and maybe even McCaffery, to stumble to have a chance.
Nobody else has any chance.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 9:00 am
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:59 am to SummerOfGeorge
LF7 is most certainly a better back than Henry. LF7 only has 3 games on the season that he has rushed less than 150 yards (31, 91, 108 yards respectively) while Henry has gone under 150 8 times (147,96,127,52,148,95,143,68 yards). We can start counting time when players were intentionally pulled out of games early due to coaching but they both had to do it, so that to me is a wash. Henrys best game this season came against Auburn on 46 carries for 271yds & 1td, which Fournette out produced on that same defense on 19car for 244yds & 3td. Granted these are in different periods of the year. Henry barely has more yards than LF7 on the season and has played an extra game (the equivalent of about 20 carries). I can build my case comparing the two players this season but unfortunately I have to work today. Henry is a good back and will most likely win the Heisman but all things accounted for I'll take LF7 over him any day.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:59 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
Buga projects to 1894 yds with equal carries
WTF?
projects? So it would be fair to say, by your logic, that Matt Brieda GaSo projects to have 2530 ypc "with equal carries" and is a far better back than either? GTFO
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