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re: B10 prepping counter punch
Posted on 7/26/21 at 7:54 am to Ssubba
Posted on 7/26/21 at 7:54 am to Ssubba
quote:
But that money isn't going to go away if they add 1-3 non AAU schools, right?
There is also the B1G academic alliance to consider. Any graduate student at any B1G school can go to graduate school at another B1G university without change in registration or tuition.
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Posted on 7/26/21 at 10:16 am to cyarrr
The research money that B1G schools bring in laughs at the media rights money that sports create.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 10:31 am to Ssubba
L
This post was edited on 9/9/22 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 7/26/21 at 10:36 am to BurgTiger
They should just grab Kansas and Iowa State and be done with it. I wish the conferences would get on the phone with each other and agree to each stop at 16 and keep it reasonably geographical. Four 16-team conferences would be great, with the 4 winners going to the playoff and the conference championship games being de facto payoff games.
WVU and ND to the ACC. Texas Teach, Baylor, Kansas State, and OSU to the PAC 16. And TCU back to the G5. It just makes too much sense not to play out like that.
No more subjective playoff committees. Polls can exist for nostalgia and consolation bowls.
WVU and ND to the ACC. Texas Teach, Baylor, Kansas State, and OSU to the PAC 16. And TCU back to the G5. It just makes too much sense not to play out like that.
No more subjective playoff committees. Polls can exist for nostalgia and consolation bowls.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 10:48 am to BigBro
(no message)
This post was edited on 9/9/22 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 7/26/21 at 10:58 am to DawgsLife
quote:
They would do well to take Oregon and Iowa State. The rest?
so you would leave Stanford out? They would be my first call.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 11:01 am to Sao
quote:
I'm no scholar but in terms of this arms race. Will AAU be at the forefront?
AAU is a Research designation relating largely to Medical research and other hard sciences and tech. So not straight STEM per se, more on the Science and Medicine and Engineering. Medical School accreditation and Engineering accreditation are major metrics. Not saying IT and business analytics doesn't matter but Medicine, Hard Science and Engineering are what matter here.
64 schools, 2 of them are Canadian. So Dartmouth, NYU, Columbia, Wash. U Saint Louis, PENN, are AAU schools. One of the requirements is that the Medical research is done either on are close to your main campus. So a school like Florida has its Medical school in Gainesville, or most of it, part of it in Jacksonville, not in Orlando or Tampa or Miami. IF the UF Medical School Center had no facilities in Gainsville, non of that Medical Research would count.
LSU's structure is totally inconsistent with AAU, the Medical School centers are in New Orleans and Shreveport. For LSU to have a chance at AAU, the Pennington Center here in Baton Rouge, which does nothing but Research needs to consolidated under the umbrella of LSU, like the Law Center now is, and not part of the LSU system but separate from LSU main campus.
So even if a Land grant has huge $$$$$ of research in AG, Engineering and Vet Medicine, not having Medical Science prevents you from being AAU.
So there are 131 or so Carnegie Tier 1 Research designated schools, every SEC school is in that, but that does not mean you can get the AAU Research designation.
For the BIG10, it is AAU or no go. I think Nebraska lost theirs because some of their Medical Centers, and thus research were not under the jurisdiction of the Lincoln campus. I think the state had to pass laws and allow Nebraska's Lincoln Main Flagship campus have oversight over the Medical Centers, etc.
This post was edited on 7/26/21 at 11:12 am
Posted on 7/26/21 at 11:23 am to VABuckeye
quote:
B10 prepping counter punch
quote:
But that money isn't going to go away if they add 1-3 non AAU schools, right?
There is also the B1G academic alliance to consider. Any graduate student at any B1G school can go to graduate school at another B1G university without change in registration or tuition.
So in addition to the long standing Notre Dame and Big10 problematic relationship, dating to Pre _WW2, Notre Dame not having AAU status and not having a Medical School would make them a No Go for the BIG10. So behind close scenes that might be why Notre Dame went to the ACC in all sports, save Football.
ACC has most of its league that are Carnegie Tier 1 Research Schools that are not AAU. (Clemson, FSU, Miami, Va. Tech, Boston College, NC State, Wake Forest, and Syracuse).
Duke, UVA, UNC and GA.Tech and PITT are AAU members.
If LSU fans are wondering, Tulane is AAU.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 11:33 am to TouchDownSEC
quote:
Talking to an alum of a a B1G university is a totally different experience than talking to an alum of an SEC school.
They know all B1G universities are reknown for being ELITE ACADEMIC Universities. They only associate with other highly rated universities. Academics and research first. Sports are fun, but academics and research first. They feel Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Old Miss, Tennesee, Kentucky, and South Carolina are complete jokes. Remember where The SEC! SEC! chant came from? Yes, a B1G comment about The SEC.
The metrics for being in the AAU are BRUTAL.
The B1G doesn't consider you to even be a university if you are not in the AAU. The B1G is livid at Nebraska for losing AAU status. Nebraska is working diligently to get it back.
The B1G research money is massive.
The B1G universities would rather close than let a non AAU in the B1G for just football. They think way different than SEC. The SEC talk is all about football. The B1G loved putting the PAC down because they have three non AAUs in their conferenve.
Academics and research first. Sports is somewhere down the line. SEC talk is football, football, footbsall. Never academics and research.
It was known that Nebraska was losing its AAU status. Football was the driving factor for Nebraska joining the B1G.
The admins of B1G schools are all covering up for molesters.
I love holy than thou B1G BS. I have never heard any of the B1G school fans talk academics and research.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 11:51 am to SEC. 593
quote:
The research money that B1G schools bring in laughs at the media rights money that sports create.
Not disagreeing with you, but why does it matter regarding athletics.
The conference doesn't distribute AAU grant money amongst its members.
Is the research money going away if a non AAU school is given membership?
This post was edited on 7/26/21 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 7/26/21 at 11:52 am to BigBro
quote:
B10 prepping counter punch
quote:
Serious question, why is it important that all members be AAU schools?
Do they believe the academic standing of conference schools will drop if some of the schools do not have AAU status?
It is very important to the B1G. Their members will not vote in another school unless they are AAU.
All of the Ivy’s are AAU.. They chose school over football at one point as well, so that may happen again. I believe that the B1G will try to be both, but TBD is that is possible or not.
Good points and I agree the B1G is trying to balance both, live in two different realms. Not sure how it will work.
The AAU designation is largely again Research $$$$ in National academy of Sciences, Medicine and Engineering. The Ivy league schools are all in it. People assume that this correlates with what you get in an undergraduate degree. Reality is the Professors doing this research are not teaching undergraduates, if so maybe Seniors, mostly Graduate and overwhelmingly PHD students.
So Higher education has sorry to say this, with the help of the Federal government sold a lie. That is incur tons of debt and get a degree(any degree) and go to one of these elite Private schools or elite public as well and you will get a return on your investment. Not so. The WSJ the last few years has been running numerous articles that is pointing out that is not the case.
Now you go to Ohio State, Michigan, Minnesota, and major in Engineering, IT, Pre-Med, Finance or Accounting, Business Analytics, Computer Science, you are going to get a return on your investment.
All these students going to today's Liberal Arts programs and majoring in what I call "Grievance" degrees or degrees that have lots of "Grievance" ideology rooted in marxist critical theory end up graduating and getting on Social media and cause chaos.
Those same Universities, AAU, are the ones teaching students to hate the country, and in some cases hate themselves.
So yes, the SEC is not full of AAU member schools. Lots of Land grant schools here, heavy in AG, Vet Medicine (Farm animals and farming economy historically) and also Engineering. So while all SEC are not AAU, they all are Carnegie Tier 1 Research and produce quality undergraduates, and yes, they all have Masters and PHD programs as well.
So lets say for the SEC being Carnegie Tier 1 Research and taking Football serious works well for us. Florida and Vandy are charter members and AAU schools and they get along well in the SEC with other members. Texas A&M has AAU status and they have fit in well.
So for me and these Ivy league elite types, I am sort of in the late William F. Buckley camp who said something to the effect I would rather be ruled by the first 2000 people in the telephone book than the entire faculty at Harvard.
So I personally think there is a large disconnect between the Faculty and Admin running those Big10 schools and the residents of those states. Just look how B1G fans reacted to the B1G commish Warren and the University Presidents for voting to shut down football last year.
The SEC said we are playing, the ACC followed, the Big12 followed and guess who came to the SEC's lead, the B1G, then the PAC12 followed the B1G lead.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 12:05 pm to cyarrr
quote:
Not disagreeing with you, but why does it matter regarding athletics.
The conference doesn't distribute AAU grant money amongst its members.
Is the research money going away if a non AAU school is given membership?
Correct, and the research $$$$ has nothing directly with what goes on at the Undergraduate Level. When they say academics here in the AAU, they are talking about PhD education. That is what the are saying. If you are a PHD tenured faculty at an AAU school in STEM field and you are assigned to teach FR to JRS, in some cases SRS, you are not producing Research. So the faculty producing the $$ have 2 classes a year they might teach, Masters and PhD and they Direct the Dissertations of numerous PhD students.
And you are correct the Research that Ohio State generates is Ohio State, what Iowa does is for Iowa, there is no Research grant sharing.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 12:24 pm to MrAUTigers
quote:
so you would leave Stanford out? They would be my first call.
Nice catch. I forgot about Stanford. You are correct. Stanford for their academics and overall sports programs would be a take.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 12:27 pm to Outback Ray
quote:Neither ASU nor Arizona* are AAU, so I guess the Big 10 wouldn't want them and the PAC-12 wouldn't cry if they left.
I know it sounds crazy but I would love the SEC to get Arizona St if they got left out ... they are south at least? Lol
*Maybe Arizona is AAU.
This post was edited on 7/26/21 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 7/26/21 at 12:33 pm to BigBro
quote:
AAU status means that you spend a lot of money on research and that you school cares a lot about academics.
Actually, AAU status means that a school receives a lot of research money. The AAU now emphasizes federal research grants as the biggest qualifier for membership. Nebraska was booted because of their emphasis on agricultural research using nonfederal monies. Syracuse withdrew from the group when their state grants exceeded federal monies.
Undergrad academics are not as important as they once were. That’s why Notre Dame has not been invited to date. The Irish focus on education before research. Georgia is another example of schools that emphasize undergrad achievement over research.
The Big Ten schools receive $10 billion in federal research grants annually. That’s five times what they make with their athletic programs. The AAU works to make sure that its members receive the bulk of research money from the government.
This may be threatened by the shifting alliances amongst schools that emphasize their athletic programs. Federal grants are public monies and SEC schools, especially, are being left out in the cold. Bringing in Texas will help in the conference’s unstated goal of luring some of the federal money away from the Big Ten and the PAC12. That’s one of the reasons for admitting Mizzou and Texas A&M, also.
The SECU is the conference’s equivalent of the Big Ten’s CIC. Its purpose to to promote collaberation amongst the conference’s academicians. Already, they have managed to elevate all SEC schools to R1 status for the first time in the history of the conference. This is the highest status for research universities. There is absolutely no reason now, short of deliberate bias against southern schools, that the gigantic pool of federal research money shouldn’t be more equitably shared with schools from the South.
This post was edited on 7/26/21 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 7/26/21 at 12:38 pm to Basura Blanco
quote:
The post katrina game that was relocated to Tempe
I was there. Great game, great atmosphere at the bars pregame. We lost and then won that game like 5 times at the end.
Posted on 7/26/21 at 1:23 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Actually, AAU status means that a school receives a lot of research money. The AAU now emphasizes federal research grants as the biggest qualifier for membership. Nebraska was booted because of their emphasis on agricultural research using nonfederal monies. Syracuse withdrew from the group when their state grants exceeded federal monies.
Undergrad academics are not as important as they once were. That’s why Notre Dame has not been invited to date. The Irish focus on education before research. Georgia is another example of schools that emphasize undergrad achievement over research.
The Big Ten schools receive $10 billion in federal research grants annually. That’s five times what they make with their athletic programs. The AAU works to make sure that its members receive the bulk of research money from the government.
This may be threatened by the shifting alliances amongst schools that emphasize their athletic programs. Federal grants are public monies and SEC schools, especially, are being left out in the cold. Bringing in Texas will help in the conference’s unstated goal of luring some of the federal money away from the Big Ten and the PAC12. That’s one of the reasons for admitting Mizzou and Texas A&M, also.
The SECU is the conference’s equivalent of the Big Ten’s CIC. Its purpose to to promote collaberation amongst the conference’s academicians. Already, they have managed to elevate all SEC schools to R1 status for the first time in the history of the conference. This is the highest status for research universities. There is absolutely no reason now, short of deliberate bias against southern schools, that the gigantic pool of federal research money shouldn’t be more equitably shared with schools from the South.
Well written and you are correct. Miss. State and Auburn are Land grant. Notre Dame does not have a Medical school and yes they stress the importance of Undergraduate and Masters education.
All of these AAU Big 10 mantras had nothing to do with undergraduate education. In fact, as I noted in another post, the Phd faculty at those AAU colleges are doing 2 things, 1) Research papers and grants and 2) Directing PhD student dissertations.
Some Texas internet alums who push this the SEC do not care about academics is nonsense. Neither TCU or Baylor are Carnegie Tier 1 Research. I think Baylor who has a Medical School which use to be a Teaching Medical School only is adding a Research Mission to its Medical School which might help it. Texas is in a league with them now. SMU, an old SWC member with Baylor and TCU is not Carnegie Tier 1 Research either.
But you are correct, the SECU has helped collaboration amongst the SEC academicians. A good friend of mine and neighbor told me that for a faculty member to get tenure at any SEC School now, they have to have an independent review committee from other Professors at only Tier 1 Research Schools. So promotion and tenure standards at all SEC schools are now uniform.
I also read somewhere that Texas A&M and MIZZOU, both AAU and have a history of getting those types of Federal grants have worked with other SEC schools in that area (Vandy and Florida are also AAU). I think Finebaum or some SEC media reported that Texas Admin also talked about wanting to assist with getting the type Federal Grants that AAU schools get, which is win for all our Universities in the South in all our footprint.
So Texas and OU in the SEC would mean 16 Universities, all Carnegie Tier 1 Research (5 AAU Research designation as well) that want to give student athletes across the board the chances to succeed academically and in sports. But Football is the $$$$ revenue stream for all the sports programs to survive.
Nothing wrong with this new SEC academically and sports wise. If the BIG10 and other leagues do not want to get on board, the SEC can follow Led Zeppelin and Ramble on without them. First thing I would do is increase scholarships to 30 just to F them over and go back to the 95 roster cap.
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