re: Missouri is a partially Southern state

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Redneck is a term originally used for farmers. That could apply to South or Midwest.

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Wrong. The term "redneck" comes from coal miners that wore red bandanas to fight against early coal companies in West Virginia.

Battle for Blair Mountain

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One of my favorite works, hence my "location."

It's all about the conflict between individual and community identity, I suppose. Southern writers of the 19th Century channeled, as you say, their energies into defending the region's peculiar institution, which, around 1830 was no longer Jefferson's "necessary evil" but instead, Calhoun's notion of "positive good."

W.J. Cash's "savage ideal"--the hypersensitivity to criticism/stifling of dissent--made it tough for someone in the mold of Twain to write in the South. I'm afraid H.L. Mencken was quite right when, in 1920, he opined (of the South): "a poet down there is as rare as an oboe-player, a dry-point etcher, a metaphysician..." Perhaps it took this "calling out" by a northerner for southern men of letters to get it together. That is what Tate, R.P. Warren, Ransom, Young, and the Nashville Agrarians would say, at least.

Great to discuss Southern literature/history with someone who really knows their stuff.

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In some areas, we have produced a more tolerant atmosphere for open, instead of the more common oblique, criticism/self-reflection since Twain's days but even today, it's difficult to adequately sort out the feelings Southerners have for the South, especially since the criticism of outsiders is largely one-dimensional even when it's accurate. I think we carry the weight of history, tragic results, and an odd resentment coupled with love of our region in a way no other region does. It makes us unique but it also tends to produce either greatness or a myopic stubbornness that is harmful. I think that's why even today too many have to leave or feel the need to leave in order to make great art. But ironically that freedom also tends to makes Southerners living in exile long for home and there's something about the South that calls its children home like a Siren's call even today.

In truth, I don't think we can ever leave it even if we physically leave. The mindset whether it's of the conflicted variety or the stubborn variety, and often it's both, stays with us.

But Mencken's criticism is still largely correct when looking at the whole of the South. There are still too many places where a modern-day Twain would not be accepted although the poets, the oboe players/unique ones as well as the blunt ones exist in virtually every spot, too many still stay in hiding. I think that may be why older great southern literature has largely employed magical realism and the gothic -- it allows writers to say what should be said to those who are open to hearing it while other readers can simply enjoy the story aspect or even the pretty/colorful language.


Oh and thanks for mentioning Cash his work is something I definitely need to read.

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KCM0Tiger

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This. Completely.

I moved down to Biloxi during HS, and constantly I would be referred to as a Yankee. By the same token, I went up to NY for grad school, and people instantly call me southern because of my "accent" and the fact that I use ma'am and sir. I constantly get people asking me what's the most authentic southern restaurant around

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In fairness, a lot of Mississippians think Memphis is Yankee land even though Memphis might as well be in Mississippi and is full of Mississippians.

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The fact that you have to defend it proves you aren't southern.

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Drewbie this is for you.....



In all seriousness I view Missouri as Midwestern. Geographers, U.S. Govt, State Govt, etc all view Missouri as the Midwest. Hell STL ARCH stands for the "Gateway to the WEST", not Gateway to the SOUTH. And no Missouri is not a "Yankee" state just like California is not a "Yankee" state. Don't know if people know the meaning of "Yankee".

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and Missouri will always be the gateway to the west. The gateway for the people of the east that established this great country to continue making this country great by avoiding the south.

In many ways, I liken St. Louis to Cincinnati "The gateway to freedom from the south."

Everyone that made this country great do their best to avoid and escape the south and move west or north.

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True. People act like the Midwest is bad, poor, trashy, etc. A lot of wealthy people live in the Midwest and Northeast "Yankee" country. Some of the BEST universities are in the Midwest/Northeast, YANKEE LAND.

I'm from the midwest. Born in Illinois, raised in Missouri and Illinois, and my family immigrated to the portion of the country that allowed them to become successful and contributing Americans working with the other less preferred minorities at the time instead of yokel arse baccy chewing southerners bragging about their bacon wrapped deep fried butter sticks covered in turkey neck sauce.

If that makes me a yankee, so be it. There's a lot more like me than the opposite in the portion of the country from which I hail.

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Having a Confederate heritage isn't the same though. 90+ percent of East Tennessee was pro Union, counties in N. Ga and N. Alabama were also strongly pro-Union. Plenty of Northerners supported the Confederacy and at the individual county level families were split on the issue both in the North and South. The simplistic notion of a pro-Union North and the pro-Confederate South was a fairy tale both regions told themselves post-war. Now the majority of people in the North and South believe it but it's always been a myth.

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That was well said!

Most of the Mountain South was pro-Union, that doesn't make them non-southerners. They just had less of a dog in the fight. They still share the same ideals, religion, and culture with the rest of the region.

Even my wife does this! >>> Many people when they think of the south they only consider the picturesque Alabama/Mississippi Plantation with loads of Spanish Moss. Most don't realize that the south has a lot of unique sub cultures scattered all around but share a common background.

All of you are WRONG!!!

Redneck is properly defined by a famous Georgia comedian as "a glorious absence of sophistication." Don't make me find a link.