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re: At this point, which liberty is more important?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:28 am to Hawgeye
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:28 am to Hawgeye
quote:
I would guess most would assume it is a machine gun that fires off many rounds just by one pull of the trigger.
The gun grabbers intentionally give that impression. 15+ years ago, Dateline NBC (same folks that gave us the fake story about dangerous pickup trucks they'd rigged to explode) did a story about "semi autos" and every gun they showed in their clips was actually a full auto. Of course they issued a 'correction' but since it was pre-internet absolutely nobody saw it.
They still do the same tricks - just look at the edited Katie Couric story where they faked the responses of gun rights supporters to make it look like they didn't have an answer for her questions.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:29 am to Hawgeye
Is anyone also concerned with what the POTUS did to the police after Ferguson?
Say there are 10 of these guys but because of the stripping of military weaponry being stripped from police forces, where would our citizens be at that point if it were a mass attack?
Say there are 10 of these guys but because of the stripping of military weaponry being stripped from police forces, where would our citizens be at that point if it were a mass attack?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:31 am to Numberwang
quote:
That's stupid. Islam is completely incompatible with Western civilization and Western values. The Constitution doesn't work with Islam. Period.
We are seeing that play out right in front of us.
The problem is bringing people and a culture into our midst that can't even fathom our value system. Not all cultures are equal. Sorry, no offence, but it's true.
no i 100% agree. i think it's completely incompatible with our society, laws, and constitution. but as a christian, how would i feel if my beliefs became incompatible with the same values over time? i hope somebody would die on their hill to preserve that.
i DETEST the Muslim religion, not as a christian, but as an American and lover of freedom.
not saying that as a victim... as much as the religious right bitches or fear mongers, we're miles away from that being true.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:32 am to The Spleen
quote:
Well, if she said that this morning, then I missed it. I know she has said we need to look into possible banning the AR-15, but I've never heard her mention banning all semi-automatic guns.
For the record, I don't own one. I've never gotten into tacti-cool weapons but here's a serious challenge.
Using facts about how much they're used in crimes and the effectiveness of other alternatives available if you're bent on mass destruction, see if you can come up with a reason other than 'they look scary'.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:33 am to Hawgeye
I'm generally not a fan of the police having military surplus but it really paid off in Orlando when they were able to knock down a wall.
That being said, I think more officers should be issued rifles as part of standard kit.
I also believe that firearms training should be reintroduced to school aged kids. but that's a different topic altogether.
Your safety is on you. Period. You can't look to the police or the feds. They are there as a response, i.e. after the fact. More people need to understand this.
That being said, I think more officers should be issued rifles as part of standard kit.
I also believe that firearms training should be reintroduced to school aged kids. but that's a different topic altogether.
Your safety is on you. Period. You can't look to the police or the feds. They are there as a response, i.e. after the fact. More people need to understand this.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:37 am to Hawgeye
quote:
Is anyone also concerned with what the POTUS did to the police after Ferguson?
Say there are 10 of these guys but because of the stripping of military weaponry being stripped from police forces, where would our citizens be at that point if it were a mass attack?
I'm terribly concerned that he helped incite a riot in the name of a robbery committing thug that got killed while assaulting a police officer.
I'm not really concerned at all about what he supposedly did regarding access to surplus DOD equipment. LE agencies are free to equip themselves with whatever they feel like they need by simply buying it - which is how most of them get their rifles.
As to the bigger question of what happens when the police don't have access to capable rifles, well, we got that answer with the North Hollywood Shootout.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:46 am to The Spleen
quote:
Both sides are engaging in fear mongering over this. It's sad to watch, because both are so entrenched in their position, nothing will get done and we'll be dealing with another one in a few months.
Agreed, but one side is actually focusing on the actual cause while the other side is creating the cause.
I am not the Muslim hating type. One of the groomsmen in my wedding was muslim. But there is a problem with the religion(all religions to a degree, but islam is the main cause currently) Something needs to be done in this world, soon.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:48 am to 3nOut
quote:
At the gym during my run this morning, i got the joy of watching fox news and msnbc side by side, both covering Orlando as you'd expect. Fox news was heavy on the Muslim side of the equation, and MSNBC on the use of an AR15.
i felt some true conflict in my soul about the 2nd amendment for maybe the first time ever. Nothing should have stopped this dude from legally obtaining a firearm. Sure there were red flags here and there, but nothing that should have stopped it. What can we do to keep these guns out of wrong hands? Especially guns that can kill this many people in an hour with one person?
It's the first time in my life that i thought "maybe we need to get those types of guns out the average citizen's hands." it was fleeting and i'm not there, but it did pop up.
On the other hand, as much as i hate the Muslim religion in Western culture, i'd die for their right to practice it. I'm left questioning how much the first amendment allows for this poisonous type of thinking that exists within the religion and is incompatible with our country and freedoms.
Obviously, not all gun owners are murderers, nor are all Muslims. The first amendment is not at odds with the second amendment either.
I'm just torn at what we do to stop this for our country and wanting a non Poli-Board discourse.
Do you think a safe country with guns and freedom of Religion (namely the Muslim religion) can be compatible? Or is this type of tragedy just what we have to accept with both freedoms?
Great post.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:48 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
They still do the same tricks
Like using suicides in their gun death totals
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:53 am to NYCAuburn
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Like using suicides in their gun death totals
Yes. Because as Japan certainly proves if you get rid of guns you won't have a suicide problem.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:55 am to 3nOut
quote:
It's the first time in my life that i thought "maybe we need to get those types of guns out the average citizen's hands." it was fleeting and i'm not there, but it did pop up.
This is where it starts... but next they'll want a ban on other firearms that are now legal. It's a slippery slope, and the left is never satisfied with a middle ground compromise. As soon as you give them one inch, they'll start demanding the next mile.
quote:
'm left questioning how much the first amendment allows for this poisonous type of thinking that exists within the religion and is incompatible with our country and freedoms.
No rational person, not even the staunchest conservative, is calling for a ban on Islam.
However, its common sense that if there is a certain type of person who desires to kill you or at best kill your western way of life and culture, maybe its not a good idea to keep importing them into your country and simultaneously handing them benefits that are also putting our nation further into debt. It's really a pretty simple concept.
We need an immigration system that acts like a Fortune 500 company trying to hire the best people. We need maintain immigration levels (if not increase them slightly) since the US birthrate is barely over the replacement rate. However, we need to be allowing the producers and the hard-workers in first. We need to increase immigration for those who want to adopt the American way of life.
There is a picture of Arnold Schwarzenegger from the 1970s that was taken the day he became an American citizen. He was draped in American flags from head-to-toe. He was obviously ecstatic to call himself an American... not Austrian... not Austrian-American... but an American! It's these people we need to be inviting to come to our land.
The country of Japan has its own problems, but they are almost completely insulated from Islamic terror because of their immigration system. Why? Because it is estimated that as few as 0.008% of Japanese people are Muslim.
The USA, Canada, Australia, China, and most every country in Europe have witnessed deadly Islamic terrorist attacks on their soil, but Japan has thus far remained unscathed. It's probably the only major world economy that has not faced that threat.
Japan's immigration system is far too strict from an economic standpoint (their country is literally shrinking), but at least radical Islam is not something they have to worry about.
Maybe its time the US stop all immigration from countries in which Islam makes up more than 20% of the population. That's not sacrificing the 1st amendment, but it is common sense.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:08 am to BHMKyle
Why that is such a hard concept for people to understand boggles the mind.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:16 am to BHMKyle
Thats a good post.
At some point, you have to say enough is enough. Maybe not forever, but for long enough to get things under control here. The first priority should not be about protecting "future" citizens. It should be about protecting our current citizens from this radical group.
Back in the 80's, or whenever we delcared "war on drugs" because it was killing our children and was coming through our souther most borders, we created a task force just to fight it. While we certainly never won that war, is it really that hard to create a special group to keep up with these individuals that continue to want to kill all of us?
I am against the gun control that they attempted to pass just a short while back. I am though, for some sort of gun control that we understand why the name is on the list. Anyone can be put on a no fly list. Congressmen have been mistakenly put on such lists. Come up with a law, that states what the parameters are. Have an appeal process for those who feel they shouldn't be on such a list. You just can't go by a list where anyone can be put on it for reasons they have no clue about.
Having said that, no list was going to stop this fella because he had already been cleared by the FBI after two separate investigations. To me, this is the mind boggling part of it all. I know the FBI is severely understaffed. This though, tells me they are not investigating the ones brought to them nearly enough. Which to me, is the biggest problem in all of this.
At some point, you have to say enough is enough. Maybe not forever, but for long enough to get things under control here. The first priority should not be about protecting "future" citizens. It should be about protecting our current citizens from this radical group.
Back in the 80's, or whenever we delcared "war on drugs" because it was killing our children and was coming through our souther most borders, we created a task force just to fight it. While we certainly never won that war, is it really that hard to create a special group to keep up with these individuals that continue to want to kill all of us?
I am against the gun control that they attempted to pass just a short while back. I am though, for some sort of gun control that we understand why the name is on the list. Anyone can be put on a no fly list. Congressmen have been mistakenly put on such lists. Come up with a law, that states what the parameters are. Have an appeal process for those who feel they shouldn't be on such a list. You just can't go by a list where anyone can be put on it for reasons they have no clue about.
Having said that, no list was going to stop this fella because he had already been cleared by the FBI after two separate investigations. To me, this is the mind boggling part of it all. I know the FBI is severely understaffed. This though, tells me they are not investigating the ones brought to them nearly enough. Which to me, is the biggest problem in all of this.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:24 am to DynastyDawg
The 2 main themes I see in this thread are lobbying and religion.
Lobbying needs to be banned all together. Elected officials should be responsible for doing their own research regarding issues and shouldn't need someone to "inform" them. Making informed decisions based on your belief system is why you were elected and is your civic duty. Just do you damn job!
People use religion to justify all sorts of shady shite. I understand it is needed to control the masses, but people's beliefs have been causing problems for thousands of years. As long as religion is prevalent there will always be issues.
PS: Before people respond "it's just Islam" then you must have forgotten the past....ever heard of the Crusades? Religion is the problem, not Islam.
Lobbying needs to be banned all together. Elected officials should be responsible for doing their own research regarding issues and shouldn't need someone to "inform" them. Making informed decisions based on your belief system is why you were elected and is your civic duty. Just do you damn job!
People use religion to justify all sorts of shady shite. I understand it is needed to control the masses, but people's beliefs have been causing problems for thousands of years. As long as religion is prevalent there will always be issues.
PS: Before people respond "it's just Islam" then you must have forgotten the past....ever heard of the Crusades? Religion is the problem, not Islam.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:26 am to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
PS: Before people respond "it's just Islam" then you must have forgotten the past....ever heard of the Crusades? Religion is the problem, not Islam.
you had me until that.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:40 am to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
PS: Before people respond "it's just Islam" then you must have forgotten the past....ever heard of the Crusades? Religion is the problem, not Islam.
Statute of limitations has run out on the Crusades defense of Islam. You're ignoring an obvious and specific problem because it isn't politically correct to call it what it is.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:43 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
Statute of limitations has run out on the Crusades defense of Islam
i also like how people always pretend Christians ran to the middle east to start shite with no provocation.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:47 am to BHMKyle
quote:
We need an immigration system that acts like a Fortune 500 company trying to hire the best people. We need maintain immigration levels (if not increase them slightly) since the US birthrate is barely over the replacement rate. However, we need to be allowing the producers and the hard-workers in first. We need to increase immigration for those who want to adopt the American way of life.
There is a picture of Arnold Schwarzenegger from the 1970s that was taken the day he became an American citizen. He was draped in American flags from head-to-toe. He was obviously ecstatic to call himself an American... not Austrian... not Austrian-American... but an American! It's these people we need to be inviting to come to our land.
The country of Japan has its own problems, but they are almost completely insulated from Islamic terror because of their immigration system. Why? Because it is estimated that as few as 0.008% of Japanese people are Muslim.
Excellent. Immigration should be controlled completely. We should also remove the concept of anchor babies as well. US Citizenship is for children born to American Citizens and those who go through the process. If the process is broken, let's fix it.
People who want to come to this country should be expected to learn the culture, language, customs, and laws.
Trump is right about immigration, at least that we need to stop the flow immediately by all means necessary, and have stringent entry requirements.
Now, with that said, this murderer was born here, so we have to address that too.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:50 am to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
PS: Before people respond "it's just Islam" then you must have forgotten the past....ever heard of the Crusades? Religion is the problem, not Islam.
Yes, because the crimes of 500 years ago is certainly relevant for today.
But, since you would like to discuss them from that standpoint let's see if you help me remember something.
The crusades first started as a reaction to invasion by some foreign group. That group escapes me right now. Who was it?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:51 am to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
PS: Before people respond "it's just Islam" then you must have forgotten the past....ever heard of the Crusades? Religion is the problem, not Islam.
ehh...There are extremist in every religion that use violence to promote their religion, that doesnt mean religion as a whole is the problem. That argument is like the gun control debate
Using the crusades as a comparison to anything in the modern world is a bit laughable.
Islam has an issue right now and it is the most prolific problem(world violence/terror) currently. Unlike most, They dont want to separate and divide themselves from the extreme like in others
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