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re: At this point, which liberty is more important?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:00 am to JesusQuintana
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:00 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
But is hard (impossible) for you to admit that a man on a federal terrorist watch list should not be able to buy guns
Stop
This guy was cleared by the FBI. The same FBI that is severely understaffed across the country. The same FBI that the POTUS was going to use to do background checks on thousand and thousands of fleeing refugees.
He wasn't on a list three days ago. Not even the no fly list.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:02 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Which is crazy. How do I get delayed/dinged every time because of a "fight" I was involved in, while managing a bar in Auburn years ago. I had to kick a customer out and a massive brawl erupted. Yet this guy has no issues.
The guy's coworker is saying he reported the terrorist multiple times and eventually quit his job because nothing was ever done to address the problem. He goes on further to say that he was told (or believes) that the guy was untouchable because he was Muslim.
There's probably at least some partial if not complete truth to that theory. Can't be seen as discriminatory or intolerant. IIRC, you're a white guy. Nobody gives a frick about offending you.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:04 am to Hawgeye
quote:
He wasn't on a list
Not true
quote:
It is impossible to tell from early reports how lengthy an investigation of Mateen was, whether he was still being monitored in any way, or whether his wife had reported his violence to law enforcement—but even if he was still being monitored for terrorism ties, he would be able to legally get a gun.
This does nothing but further illustrate my point. The current gun control laws are INEFFECTIVE. They don't work. They are too lax and any effort to strengthen them is viciously opposed by NRA lobbyists.
They don't care about mass shootings, they benefit from them in fact.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:10 am
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:06 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
But is hard (impossible) for you to admit that a man on a federal terrorist watch list should not be able to buy guns.
Like I stated in this thread, I have no problem with proper checks and balances, but there should be no hindrance of purchase if said person is an "okay" citizen
quote:
I promise if you do that Odummer will not personally be on your door step to clean out your armory.
The level that the dems/obama and more so Hilary, want to control guns, goes far beyond background checks. They simply want to take guns and ban them. This is fact
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:07 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
But is hard (impossible) for you to admit that a man on a federal terrorist watch list should not be able to buy guns.
Unless I missed it, not one person in this thread has made that statement.
The problem is that even if that were a disqualifying factor (and it should be), it would not have mattered because - say it with me now:
HE WAS NOT ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST WHEN HE BOUGHT THE GUNS
LINK
He wasn't on the list despite being twice flagged by the FBI, reported multiple times by coworkers, and having a father who hosts a pro-Taliban television show right here in the US.
But yeah, as Hawgeye says, we can totally trust that those being allowed into our country are being accurately vetted.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:08 am to JesusQuintana
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:09 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
They simply want to take guns and ban them. This is fact
No it's not. It's fear mongering from gun folks. Neither has ever said anything about taking guns from everyone, nor an outright ban on all guns.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:12 am to The Spleen
quote:
Neither has ever said anything about taking guns from everyone, nor an outright ban on all guns.
quote:
No it's not. It's fear mongering from gun folks
Hillary stated this morning that we needed to ban all semi autos. But no, I am lying and its all fear mongering
quote:
Neither has ever said anything about taking guns from everyone, nor an outright ban on all guns.
Sure, they will allow a select few shitty guns to a select few citizens
ETA.
quote:
fear mongering
kind of like taking a event where someones religion as a cause for terror/harm and using that event to promote their personal agenda
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:14 am
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:14 am to JustGetItRight
I've seen several other reports that said it was unclear whether he was still on it.
Regardless, he was on it at some point and that only further illustrates my point that if he was currently on it or not it still wouldnt have precluded him from buying any gun he wanted.
This is the point, and always has been, gun laws are weak an ineffective.
Regardless, he was on it at some point and that only further illustrates my point that if he was currently on it or not it still wouldnt have precluded him from buying any gun he wanted.
This is the point, and always has been, gun laws are weak an ineffective.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:14 am to The Spleen
quote:
No it's not. It's fear mongering from gun folks. Neither has ever said anything about taking guns from everyone, nor an outright ban on all guns.
i agree with you that they have not said it.
But i sincerely believe that Hillary only thinks federal/state employees should be allowed to possess firearms. Everything in her demeanor screams that.
That being said, i can't hold it against her as a view she has, i just think it's the case personally.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:15 am to 3nOut
The Right to think anything is morally stops when your expression of that opinion, philosophy or theology infringes on the rights of others.
Example, the right to bear arms stops when you are a criminal, crazy or extreme in your views to the point you plan to kill others.
You are free to think that homosexuality or abortion are morally wrong; that is your right. It stops when you decide to kill people over those views.
Example, the right to bear arms stops when you are a criminal, crazy or extreme in your views to the point you plan to kill others.
You are free to think that homosexuality or abortion are morally wrong; that is your right. It stops when you decide to kill people over those views.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:17 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Hillary stated this morning that we needed to ban all semi autos
Did she really?
That needs to be in a Trump campaign ad right now.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:17 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
This is the point, and always has been, gun laws are weak an ineffective.
In this particular case, I would say that the way the available information was shared and/or acted upon was weak and ineffective.
I suspect that, in some cases, federal terror information in regards to Muslims is withheld to avoid any discrimination issues.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 10:22 am
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:18 am to JustGetItRight
I agree with you 100% on the immigration issues.
I'm an ardent gun control supporter, but there are many areas I side with conservatives as well. Immigration reform being one of them
I'm an ardent gun control supporter, but there are many areas I side with conservatives as well. Immigration reform being one of them
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:21 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
I've seen several other reports that said it was unclear whether he was still on it
An FBI representative yesterday plainly stated, he was cleared of everything and was NOT on any type of list. The guy could have flown and blown the plane up if he wanted.
Again, this entire situation isn't a matter of more strict gun laws helping anything. For one, this one, AGAIN, is on the FBI and their lack of properly vetting a person. Now, many people would say that the problem with the FBI is that they do not have enough people on staff to maintain an update on all the idiots out there. Which, I would agree.
We need to strengthen the FBI. We need to strengthen the military. This fight is being brought to us. This gun bullshite is simply forcing a political agenda and ignoring the real problem.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:23 am to JesusQuintana
Look, just because you are on a watch list doesn't mean you cannot purchase guns. The feds screw up all of the time and put people on there that shouldn't be.
We live in a nation of freedom. That freedom can be used to ease in a crime, but you cannot take away others freedom in order to provide a false sense of security.
Regarding guns, I carry and will continue to do so. I know that in just about any situation other than thugs slowly walking up on me that I will be SECOND to draw and thusly at a disadvantage. I will, none the less, have a fighting chance for me and my family and for that reason I will never stop carrying.
We live in a nation of freedom. That freedom can be used to ease in a crime, but you cannot take away others freedom in order to provide a false sense of security.
Regarding guns, I carry and will continue to do so. I know that in just about any situation other than thugs slowly walking up on me that I will be SECOND to draw and thusly at a disadvantage. I will, none the less, have a fighting chance for me and my family and for that reason I will never stop carrying.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:23 am to 3nOut
quote:
On the other hand, as much as i hate the Muslim religion in Western culture, i'd die for their right to practice it.
That's stupid. Islam is completely incompatible with Western civilization and Western values. The Constitution doesn't work with Islam. Period.
We are seeing that play out right in front of us.
The problem is bringing people and a culture into our midst that can't even fathom our value system. Not all cultures are equal. Sorry, no offence, but it's true.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:23 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Hillary stated this morning that we needed to ban all semi autos.
The sad part is, I would just estimate...my own estimation of course, no link to provide any evidence...But, I would guess that 75% of americans have no clue what a semi-automatic actually is.
I would guess most would assume it is a machine gun that fires off many rounds just by one pull of the trigger.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:23 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
I agree with you 100% on the immigration issues.
I'm an ardent gun control supporter, but there are many areas I side with conservatives as well. Immigration reform being one of them
And I agree with you that it is inexcusable that someone on the terrorist watch list currently isn't prohibited from legally buying a gun.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 10:27 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Hillary stated this morning that we needed to ban all semi autos.
Well, if she said that this morning, then I missed it. I know she has said we need to look into possible banning the AR-15, but I've never heard her mention banning all semi-automatic guns.
quote:
kind of like taking a event where someones religion as a cause for terror/harm and using that event to promote their personal agenda
Both sides are engaging in fear mongering over this. It's sad to watch, because both are so entrenched in their position, nothing will get done and we'll be dealing with another one in a few months.
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